I know it's summer league, but...
 

I find it tough to try to work on my mechanics during summer league games when my partners don't have any desire to switch on fouls, bump and run etc. I get very aggrivated at these refs that tell me, "It's just summer league". I guess there is no point to my post, just venting. I finally did say something when my partner inbounded the ball in the backcourt when she was supposed to be the new lead. Oh well. I guess the real problem is, my assignor has a son playing in the league and He is there every day watching. I hope he understands. :o

Work on other stuff. Crisp signals for OOB. Good mechanics, etc. Chances are the assignor has seen your attempts to do it the right way. You can still improve your positioning, game management, etc.

I bet you would get some points with him if you show him you capitalized "He" when referring to him in you post. Exactly which deity is he? :rolleyes:

Don't you mean 'He'?

As long as you understand where to stand and where to go during dead ball coverage, then it really should not be that hard to get that down. It is really not hard to switch or bump and run. As someone said, you should work on your signals, your coverage area, and your judgment and game management skills. You really do not need to work on where you stand. As long as you know where to stand and when to stand there, you should be OK.

Peace

To me, he's just he. Hee hee! :D

Off-season ball is what it is...
Unfortunately, most quality officials don't do off-season ball & that puts assignors in a situation where they have to use whoever is available. Most times the only requirement for working is owning a shirt (football or basketball) & a whistle (volleyball or basketball) :)

That being said, there is still SO MUCH you can do to improve YOUR game in these situations! Like others have said, get your signals tightened up, game management skills & effective communication can always be improved. Videotape your games & break them down, to plug some of those holes. Look at your presence, your run & your dead ball officiating. A good time to work on being an R for next season!

I used to look at it as a negative when working with "those guys" but now I embrace the opportunity to lead by example & people who KNOW good officiating when they see it generally let you know what a great job you did... considering.

The officials who say "it's just summer ball" are more than likely to say the same thing for JV games.
Probably the reason why they are still doing those games after 10+ years at the craft... continue to treat them all as State Championships/Final Fours & it will pay off.

Last year I found myself feeling the way you do now, until I was told, don't work off-season or take advantage of it. I do feel ya pain though...

If you are not bumping and running, aren't you getting caught in a long switch? The rest of it seems all to common for summer ball though....

I think I'd be saying something like "Hey P...let's make sure we are bumping and running unless you really like to run from baseline to baseline for some reason....I'd prefer if we bump and run...Ok with you?".

I'm betting the OP's partner only eschewed the bump and run when it was the OP who had to go baseline to baseline.

The problem is summer ball is not like other regular seasons. I was working a camp yesterday and only one of the 8 coaches even said a word to the officials about calls on a regular basis. The host coach who gave me a lot of crap during a regular season game I had with him was as quite as a mouse. It sounds great in theory to treat these games the same, but the participants do not treat these games the same. They are just trying to get better.

Peace

I hear ya JRut, although the situations aren't exactly the same shouldn't our approach & work ethic be the same?

You are what you consistently do...

If we go hard in practice situations (off-season) wouldn't it be that much easier when the real deal (season) comes around?

Fighter pilots have said that their simulations for war time are so intense that when they actually go into combat it's a calm feeling as they have been here before.

It is hard to get everyone to buy into working hard in the offseason. Even though the offseason is when officials get better. In my experience, the guys that won't switch, etc are the same guys that complain and criticize the officials who leap frong them every year.

Still continue to work hard on your improvement goals. More often than not, you will have guys that want to work hard and get better.

i work hard to improve in the off season and i sure dont want to develop bad habits. i think one of the problems is that some officials are working a ridiculous amount of games in a day (or week) - its not fair to the players, summer league or not, they're only hurting themselves by slacking and picking up bad habits, which will be obvious in camp situations. Take everyone's advice and continue to work hard during summer league regardless of what your partners do and it will pay off in the end.

Exactly! You'd be suprised at how your credibility & development can increase during the off-season.

Example: Working a low level sophmore summer league. Play is sloppy, game is boring, not too many people intersted. Not to my knowledge, but the varsity coach is watching from waaaaay up in the bleachers. After the game, he comes down & says you're sweating & hustling as if this were a post-season game. I said, I treat all my games the same coach!
He asks for my name, writes in down & proceeds to say, looks like I'll have to put you on my list for post-season votes.
Year around work ethic pays off!

Not just because of that situation either, it feels good to leave a gym knowing you gave your best, having the winners as well as the losers say "good work tonight sir"!

Knowledgable people can tell when you're working hard or just going through the motions.

You can't control what other people do or how hard other people work (or don't work, in this case). If they want to slack off, that's on them. I'm pretty sure the "powers that be" know a hard working official when they see one. Just continue to work hard and be the best official YOU can be. :D

Gee, I wanna be one of them knowledgeable people when I grow up too.:)

My take? There's one heckuva big difference between not switching in summer ball and actual lack of hustle. Jmo but I think that maybe some people you might call fairly knowledgeable are looking to see if the the officials are hustling to keep up with the play, hustling to get into position and hustling to stay in position. What they do <b>before</b> play actually starts might sometimes even fall into the realm of...gasp...false hustle.

I personally kinda put switching in the summer in the same grab-bag as foul-reporting mechanics. I'd rather have an official who is better at <b>calling</b> fouls than one who is better at reporting 'em.

I know....heresy.....but also my opinion.

That's straight from an assignor folks!

And I can dig it JR, because I don't switch on every foul nor do I come to a complete stop when reporting as most summer leagues have a running clock. I like to give 'em their moneys worth.

FTR, I was addressing the "it's just summer league" attitude in general.

And letting the OPer know that there is always something we could be working on regardless of level, gender, partners experience or lack therof & season of play.

From what I understand in a simulation for fighter, they see situations they will have to deal with during a combat situation. The problem with summer ball, there are many situations that are not like the real season. I know many league I work we do not even handle foul situations the same and often FTs are not shot until late in the game. It is often unrealistic to use all the mechanics when you do not use all the rules that might apply to normal game situations.

What you need to work on the most is what you call. I use summer games for calling plays and getting my judgment right. I work on being consistent on calling my game, looking off ball and using my signal mechanics when appropriate. Things like table reporting and following certain rules are almost out of the question. The last thing I am worried about is switching in those games. Unless I am working a camp, I am not going to be using 3 Person mechanics during the summer anyway.

Peace

That sums it up nicely.

Maybe another way to express it might be that you should work on the parts of your game that you feel maybe aren't as strong as other parts.

I believe we're on the same page sir (see post #17)
as I was mainly addressing the "it's just summer ball" mentality.
IMO, The OPs partner could've said it in a better way...
It's just summer ball allows for many different interpretaions & perceptions.

I just come out and say "we're not switching on every foul".

[quote=Jurassic Referee]I'd rather have an official who is better at calling fouls than one who is better at reporting 'em.

Why can't there be both? Good at calling and reporting?:confused:

Good point! For me in the lead position I would switch when calling a foul IN trail I just report and put the ball back in place.

[QUOTE=truerookie]What are you going to do if there are no personal fouls kept? Foul reporting is not nearly as vital (in the summer) than what you call.

Peace

[QUOTE=truerookie]With all due respect, I believe the dinosaur was talking about call selection over reporting during "summer ball" in particular... if one has both qualities in "summer ball" that's a bonus. I'm sure he does require both when wins & losses matter most.

It ain't as vital in the winter either imo.:)

Bad foul reporting mechanics don't really affect the game <i>per se</i>. Bad play-calling sureasheck does though.

This is where I disagree with you. How you present yourself on foul calls is just as important as anything you do when it comes to presentation (uniform, signals, presence). People are looking for your confidence to determine the competence as an official. You are always going to have people that disagree with a call or two even when you are right. The presentation is the way you communicate the call to the world and that is very important. Also it is important because if you cannot present the proper information, then you might have to clean up a mess you are not able to easily handle.

Peace

Oh man, do I know how you feel. I am young, and yet not old enough to do high school, so when I do summer league and all that, I try to imagine it just like any other high school that I may do. However, I too run into problems where the refs wont change out of position. Whereas too I can't stand it. I do though, work on other things such as mechanics, signals, etc. So yea, I know how you feel.

-Lucas

[quote=Ch1town]I understood that part. I was asking why can't we have both. Why one have to take precedent over the other.

I agree with this statement.

Because one is more important than the other. Are they both important? Yes.
But one is obviously more important.

I got that.

I'm attempting to play devil's advocate here. (I may not be doing a good job). If I hear my assignor state that play calling is more important than mechanics to hell with the mechanics as long as I call the play right I will work.

I agree. Usually in summer ball, my buddies and I use what we refer to as "convenience mechanics", which pretty much means switch when it makes sense.

And that where I could disagree completely with you too.

When I evaluate, I could give a damn less how an official reports, as long as that report is fairly accurate and legible. Whether that official is reporting a <b>correct</b> call is a helluva lot more important than looking pretty while doing so.

You can have the greatest presentation and communication skills and also show the greatest confidence of any official in the history of basketball while reporting, but if you're reporting what was obviously a crappy call, the world is gonna care less about what you look like while you're reporting.

Reporting a call is nowhere near as important as getting the call right first imo.

Exactly! I worked with an official several times last season & they were really crisp & clean while reporting fouls to the table (I must admit I took a bit of their reporting style and incorporated into my game) but the call selections got them ripped after a few of the games.

ie: Several "over the back" calls where the defense obtained the rebound & the contact didn't put the rebounder at a disadvantage, but the call was continuously made... sometimes killing the fast break opportunity. Plus, when working in a 3 person system the L should trust the T & slot to make those calls.

The official couldn't comprehend the fact that contact doesn't equal a foul, the result of the contact is what makes it a foul. I guess that's a good example of call selection outweighing table reporting.
Basically, who cares how well you look when reporting a bad call.

If you did, one could question your listening skills. :)

Good luck with that. Twice this AAU season I've heard this one fellow official complain because other officials were using proper mechanics and because they were switching--thus causing the games to take longer. He said we need to just report the foul from where we are standing and get the ball back in play.

oops
 

Slight slip of the sHift key.:o

This just needed to be repeated. Well stated.

I think both things are a package. And when I evaluate officials for my association or at camps, if you cannot give a good presentation you will get docked just as much as if you made a bad call. And during the summer most of the time you cannot work both things equally because of the nature of summer ball. Where I am from your mechanics might get you over the top. We can always disagree with a call or two when we are not in the position of the official. But one thing that helps officials where I am at is your mechanics. And your table presentation is a big part of that. You might call a great game but if no one knows what you are doing, then it does not matter. Then people start to question the other parts of your games.

In my experience if you do not have good mechanics, chances are you do not have the other things to be a good official.

Peace

Thanks! (with the luck part);) . Look, it makes a hill of beans to me what someone may or may not want to do. I can only speak for myself. When I step on the court I will give all parties involved my best. What is wrong with officials giving the kids; site admin; assignor (except JR;) ) their best without regards if its summer or regular season(play calling/mechanics)?

This is one of many reasons why newbies are having a hard time grasping the concept because of this mindset. Summer ball is not as important. Which I say BS!! Most new officials start out in the summer.


I bet the official who was complaining was probably a local official and was not assigned by supervisor of officials for AAU.

You are confusing "giving your best" to what is reality. Giving your best has little to do with what mechanics we choose to use or not use. If anything the kids and coaches want to play, rather than us sitting around to make movements. And when rules take out many parts of normal game activity, I am sure the players and coaches care even less what we do as long as we keep the game moving.

This last statement is not true (at least in my experience). There are a lot of officials where I live that start working when the real season starts. Summer games are often given to people who are already on the lists of associations and that means they were members and licensed officials. Now that can vary from one place to another, but I cannot think of any time I worked a HS league, AAU Tournament or any off season league with a brand, spanking new official. Most of the time those officiating summer leagues in my area are veteran officials with vast experience. I know when I started I worked regular season HS and JH games first. Summer Leagues was not something I had access to because I was not yet a licensed official.

Peace

You have your perspective, I have mines.

Perspective and reality are two different things.

Peace

What kind of mines are they? Gold, silver?

The person who made the comment was a local official who works a HS varsity schedule. In the off-season he is what we call a "Game Ho". He works whenever & wherever and as often as possible to make as much money as possible. And he is used often by our local AAU assignors.

And as far as the AAU connection goes. Our local AAU assignors have weekly meetings with Boo Williams and Willie Brown. We work our games in the Boo Williams SportsPlex. Boo Williams is the National Chair of AAU Boys' Basketball. And many games are personally monitored by Willie Brown. Willie Brown is the POC listed here: 2008 AAU NATIONAL OFFICIALS INFORMATION FORM AND APPLICATION FOR NATIONAL TOURNAMENTS".

land

There's where we differ. I don't consider a slavish devotion to mechanics that are basically meaningless compared to what is actually needed to have a well-officiated game to be the <b>"best"</b> of what any official has to offer. If an official is constantly hustling to get into the right position and then consistently makes the correct call, evenly and equitably through the whole game, then I personally think that official is giving their best.

Some mechanics need to be followed faithfully; some not so much imo.

We'll have to leave it as a difference of opinion as to what each of us feels is actually important and necessary to have a well-officiated game.

I recently had the opportunity to hear an interview with Mr. John Adams, when asked about the 1 or 2 things that would make him want to know more about an official in a camp setting (summer ball) he said "at the end of the day I'm really looking for guys that consistently get the calls right".

I guess there's a reason why JR has had longevity,
as you can see he & Mr. Adams share the same perspectives on what's most important.

You are assuming Jurassic is a "he" and that "he" is old. ;)

Excellent point! Allow me to rephrase:

JR is either wise beyond his/her years or has been at it for quite some time... quoting the same perspective as the new NCAA Coordinator has got to lend credibility. Or maybe the dinosaur just listened to the same interview that I heard.

Just for the record, and <i>apropos</i> to nuthin', I just looked and I still am what could loosely be described as a "he" and I also am older than dirt( but not quite a senior citizen yet). :)

If I ever get set in my ways though, please kick me. The game is constantly changing and evolving. Officials have to keep pace. Jmo.

You can teach mechanics. You can't teach ability. At the best, you <b>might</b> be able to help develop it a little.

That's why there's some great young officials....and some really crappy old officials......and vice-versa. :)

Again, jmo.

I have attended John's Camps and I can tell you that you will not be hired by him if you did not have good mechanics. Of course the bottom line is to hire people that get plays right. But the people he is comparing you to have good mechanics. And I know there were people that were eliminated because they had shotty mechanics or other things about there games while getting plays right.

Peace

..."or if you aren't fit with an athletic run". He also went on to say "if you don't catch his attention in 5-10 minutes, you probably won't" but I was just comparing the bottom line perspective that he & JR shared basically word for word.

When I look back in my career, I recall that games that went to the toilet did so more because of mechanics mistakes than a missed call. Mechanics are a tool to more easily make the right call.

If you're out of position, players and coaches know it. Fans likely too. If you're in position, you are less likely to miss a call. (This is working under the assumption that an assignor doesn't place you in a game that's way over your head.)

I agree with JR that some mechanics should be followed AMAP, and with others, liberties can be taken.

When it comes to the best way to handle a game, I think looking to the top is your best bet. Look at the NBA mechanics in the 70s and 80s. They were much more wild than they are today. The NBA, NFL, etc all refined the mechanics to today's game.

President Adams I presume ...
 

Was the interview on the HBO miniseries boxed DVD set. I think that they just got into the stores.

[QUOTE=JugglingReferee]When I look back in my career, I recall that games that went to the toilet did so more because of mechanics mistakes than a missed call. Mechanics are a tool to more easily make the right call.
QUOTE]

I have to ask. Can you give an example of when poor mechanics have ruined a game?

Double whistle and you have a blarge. Or when an official is not in position and they completely miss a play and make the wrong call or ruling. It is hard to follow rules when you do not see what you just called. I can think of a lot more situations but I do not want to waste anymore time.

Peace

I agree. My very first coach T as a HS ref came in my very first HS game and I was culpable because I communicated a foul call poorly at the spot. As my mechanics have improved, problems attributable to my poor mechanics have ceased to occur. There is so much in the game that is beyond our ability to consistently control. But how we execute our mechanics is something we can control and it makes sense to do it.

[QUOTE=TheOracle]Camp game last Saturday. High level of ball, one team exited the state tourney in the semis last year and has a very difficult HC. The score is close, probably 4 point difference at this point, and the outcome of the game has some bearing on seeding for the bracket portion of the camp which will start right after this game.

In the last two minutes of the game, a younger looking official comes up strong with a whistle and a preliminary call of "Handcheck!". He reports it as a handcheck at the table, then indicates the ball is going the other way. He heads on down the floor to become the new lead.

Everybody else in the gym is scratching his head. Crew chief calls him back, confers with him for a minute, sends him to the table to "fix" his call. He does so briefly, then heads toward the new lead again with no other indication to the teams or those watching what the call really is.

What really happened was he had either a PC or TC call (never found out which). He botched the communication at the spot, again at the table, and a third time as he "fixed" the problem.

Okay, so it didn't ruin the game, but it certainly derailed what little remained of an otherwise good game. And, IMHO (and painful experience), had it happened earlier in the second half, it would likely have ruined the game as his cred is now shot and coaches, players, fans, and partners will be questioning everything this kid calls and no-calls the rest of the game.

So IMHO it is possible for one moment of poor mechanics to ruin a game. Think about it. If you have a high level game, that is close, and if the outcome is meaningful, and one of the officials on the game, who is not one of the respected vets who get the benefit of the doubt, does something that grabs everybody's attention and unintentionally broadcasts the message "I don't belong at this level", well you know how the story ends because we've all seen it happen. It's a little bit of a perfect storm, but not much of one.

Comment that I heard at camp that made perfect sense to me was this one.

Quote:

"It is not what you call, it is what you communicate."

Basically suggesting that you can make the right call but if you give a signal or indication you do not know what you are doing, the call is going to be lost.

BTW, this came from an individual that helps pick the officials for the NCAA Tournament or evaluates officials and sends the information to the NCAA Coordinator to help him make that decision.

Peace

I don't entirely agree. It's usually true that an official who makes consistently poor calls, but has good mechanics, will be widely regarded as a poor official and his mechanics cannot fix that. But a reasonably good official who makes an uncharacteristically poor call can often gain the benefit of the doubt by how he reports it. Taking a 4 call (based on a 1-10 scale) and turning it into a 9 or 10 call at the table may sound like just so much "camp philosophy", but I've found it to be true over a period of several years since I was first introduced to it. The opposite has also proven to be true. A really good call, followed by a poor presentation, will likely be poorly accepted.

Got it. I equate what people term "mechanics" with signals and reporting. My bad.