Improper inbound revisited with new info

[Mark Padgett]

The members insert in the April Referee Magazine addresses the issue of a team not taking the ball OOB after a basket and starting down court with the ball.

I know we have gone over this ad nauseum before, but their interpretation is kind of interesting (to me, anyway).

They actually give three different rulings, claiming there is no specific rule in NF to cover this. Here are their three with their comments (not mine) in ():

1) delay of game technical (most severe)
2) throw-in violation for being inbounds before releasing the throw-in (somewhat more reasonable)
3) the official could whistle the ball dead immediately and award the ball back to team A for a throw-in (probably the most prudent, especially in youth ball)

They then say, "It's not often you get options, but any of those can work." Then they quote NF rules 10.1.5b and 9.2.2.

Well, 10.1.5b is the delay technical rule and 9.2.2 is the failure to pass the ball directly into the court rule but not the "5 seconds" rule.

Hey - I've got an idea! How about 4.41.3 - the throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player and the team entitled to it plus 9.2.4 - the thrower shall not consume five seconds from the time the throw-in starts until the ball is released on a pass directly into the court. However, the counter to my argument is that the "thrower" -as mentioned in 9.2.4 - is the player who attempts to make a throw-in and to enforce 9.2.4, you must have a thrower.

Even though it's not perfect, I still think you count off 5 seconds and call the violation. Ask yourself this, isn't that the least arguable and the most defensible under the rules?

[PAULK1]

What if after you start your count there is a long pass and a field goal or a foul before your 5 count is up?

[bob jenkins]

This is (based on your description) roughly the same answer they've given before.

I agree with them -- in any particular case, any of the three answers might be "best."

I've always (always = twice in 6 years) chosen #3 (bring them back and do it over). I'd move to #1 (T) if it happened again in the same game, or I thought the team was "trying to get away with something."

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by PAULK1
What if after you start your count there is a long pass and a field goal or a foul before your 5 count is up?

I would absolutely get to five first.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
The members insert in the April Referee Magazine addresses the issue of a team not taking the ball OOB after a basket and starting down court with the ball.

I know we have gone over this ad nauseum before, but their interpretation is kind of interesting (to me, anyway).

They actually give three different rulings, claiming there is no specific rule in NF to cover this. Here are their three with their comments (not mine) in ():

1) delay of game technical (most severe)
2) throw-in violation for being inbounds before releasing the throw-in (somewhat more reasonable)
3) the official could whistle the ball dead immediately and award the ball back to team A for a throw-in (probably the most prudent, especially in youth ball)

They then say, "It's not often you get options, but any of those can work." Then they quote NF rules 10.1.5b and 9.2.2.

Well, 10.1.5b is the delay technical rule and 9.2.2 is the failure to pass the ball directly into the court rule but not the "5 seconds" rule.

Hey - I've got an idea! How about 4.41.3 - the throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player and the team entitled to it plus 9.2.4 - the thrower shall not consume five seconds from the time the throw-in starts until the ball is released on a pass directly into the court. However, the counter to my argument is that the "thrower" -as mentioned in 9.2.4 - is the player who attempts to make a throw-in and to enforce 9.2.4, you must have a thrower.

Even though it's not perfect, I still think you count off 5 seconds and call the violation. Ask yourself this, isn't that the least arguable and the most defensible under the rules?

I have yet to receive my April issue yet, but I have to express my humble opinion again on this matter.

Option #1 is a non-option. It is not a logical choice for any reason. The rules just do not allow such an option. Not to mention, how can an official explain/justify a tecnical foul? The answer to the question is that an official cannot, and there is nothing in the rules that can even remotely justify a technical foul for delay of game or any other reason. I do not care if Team A does this after every score by Team B, just keep calling the throw-in violation per Option #3 and give the ball to Team B for a throw-in nearest the spot of Team A's throw-in violation, eventually, Team A and their Coach will finally figure out what they are doing wrong.

Option #3 is okay for youth games, i.e., young players who are still learning the game.

That leave us with Option #2, the only logical option, and the only option that is supported by rule.

When A1 takes possession of the ball after Team B's score and throws it to a teammate running upcourt, he/she is telling the officials that the ball is at his/her disposable for a throw-in and she is making a throw-in by passing it to A2 who is running upcourt. A1 has committed a throw-in violation.

The following NFHS rules support Option #2: R4-S41-A1, A2, A3, and A4; R6-S1-A2b; R6-S5; R7-S4-A3; R7-S5-A7; R7-S6-A1; and R9-S2-A5.

If one wants to take the time, the matching NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules can be found in short order.

[ChuckElias]

Apparently, Mark P. didn't read Juulie's list of "Lessons Learned" before starting this (re)tread. . . I mean, thread

Chuck

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Apparently, Mark P. didn't read Juulie's list of "Lessons Learned" before starting this (re)tread. . . I mean, thread

Chuck

ditto