Hand ball...by the referee!
 

Saw this in an AAU game earlier this week. A is taking an end line throw in. Ref hands the ball to A1, and then starts to back out while begining his count. A1 makes a very quick throw which strikes the referee's counting hand and deflects, otherwise untouched, out of bounds over the side line.

Is this:

a) OOB violation on the ref for being the last to touch it?
b) OOB violation on A?
c) Throw-in violation on A for throwing it OOB untouched by any player?
d) Throw-in violation on A for not throwing the ball directly into the court?
e) Too weird to call anything, just blow it dead and "reset"?

If the official was touching OOB when the ball contacted his hand/arm, then the thrown ball has contacted someone OOB other than a player and is a throw-in violation on A1 at that point. So per the strict rules, the answer is C.

However, choice E is probably going to be well accepted by the participants in the game.

Person Or Thing ???
 

c) Throw-in violation on A for throwing it OOB untouched by any player?

I was taught to almost always treat the official like he, or she, was part of the court, be it inbounds, or out of bounds. The only exception that I'm aware of, is when a player with the ball who is inbounds touches an official who is out of bounds, there is no violation here, because in this case the official is a person out of bounds, not a thing out of bounds.

Agree.

E is an easy sell imo. Just tell the coaches that you inadvertently interfered with the throw-in.

I usually step away so I don't chop anyone with my counting arm or my start the clock chop.

Good call.
I would try to put it back in quickly after my whistle, to prevent such discussion. ;)
If in-throwing team had endline privilege, I would allow it again.

I think it would be "D". The ball hit the official while the official was on the end-line. So, the ball hit the end-line. This boceomes the same as a bounce-pass inbounds that hits OOB first.

Not for me.
The way I see the original Post, player tried to pass to teammate.
In-thrower didn't attempt to bounce the pass off the floor or off the ref.
Swinging hand got in the way. Don't penalize either team. ;)

By rule I think Bob is right. If the ball touching the ref is the same as the ball touching the spot where the ref was standing, then this would be the same as the throw-in pass touching the ground oob before going into the court. Ergo, violation D.

But I also think the right way to handle it is to not penalize A for this fluke. Blow it dead, and do it again.

Is Bob ever incorrect ? :)
By rule [Referee's Authority], I would not feel incorrect.

Of course, no player will ever hit my swinging hand, cuz, though I may countin', I ain't swingin' until I am away.

I'm wrong approximately 682 times a day -- I have a wife and a teen dughter, you know. ;)

And, I was givign the "rules" answer, not the "do what's right" answer.

And, if an official swings with the arm closest to the inbounder / towards OOB, the play won't happen.

Of course, that assumes the ball went inbounds. If it bounced back to the thrower or otherwise stayed OOB, it would be the same as the thrower dribbling the ball during the throwin...no violation! :p

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that one. :)

Actually, it doesn't matter where the ball went. What is important is if the official judges that the player was indeed making a throw-in pass. If that was the case, then a violation occurred.

You wanna cite the rule and explain this a little further, please?

Sure. The provisions that govern the throw-in which are listed in 9-2 place that restriction upon the THROW-IN PASS, not on any other action of the thrower such as bouncing the ball OOB at his side or making a pass to another OOB teammate. It would be incorrect to apply the rules governing the THROW-IN PASS to action which does not constitute such.
For example, we know that a player may throw a bounce pass to another OOB teammate following a made goal. That pass is not subject to the same restrictions as the THROW-IN PASS, which cannot bounce OOB before going to the teammate.

Therefore, it is imperative that the official first make a determination as to whether or not a player is attempting to make a throw-in pass or is just doing something else with the ball while OOB before he makes a decision upon the legality of the action.

Good Post.
 

Good post. Thanks for the reminder. Rookie officials. Take note.

But the question is what makes a pass a pass. Picture this: Official hands A1 the ball from his left and, for whatever reason, hesitates before getting out of the way sufficiently. A1 looks right and snaps a quick no-look pass to his left. The ball strikes the hand of the official, who is clearly out of bounds, and bounces back to land in the hands of A1 again. There is no doubt that A1 intended for this to be a pass, but........ I think that it is ultimately the responsibility of the player to avoid the official, no matter how much he may be out of position. BUT, in an extreme example of "Oops, my bad! Why was I in the way?" I can see going with a redo.

Why would this be a violation? If the official is OOB then this would be the equivalent of A1 bouncing the ball OOB and retrieving it.

That was my point. I posted that situation based on what Nevada had stated:




I don't see that judgment of what the player is attempting to do is part of the equation here. If the ball hits the official and bounces back to the thrower, and touches nothing inbounds, I don't see the violation.

I agree. If the ball never touches inbounds, then the inbounder is just dribbling.

Maybe, but it still seems like a good time for an inadvertent whistle.

Or even an advertent one.