Little girls treated fairly, or unfairly?

Mark Padgett · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 17, 2002, 01:13pm

My local fishwrap, The Oregonian, carried the story this morning about a fourth grade girls basketball team called the "Big Dogs". They are from Milwaukie, Oregon, which is a suburb of Portland. There are 10 girls on the team and a few of them played last year, but most are in their first year of organized ball.

Despite that, and being the shortest team in the league, they went 10-0, scoring a total of 424 points to their opponents 154. In one game, they led 44-0 at the half, and their coach said they could have run up the score, but didn't.

The league told the team they could not participate in the season ending tournament because the other teams said they would not play if this team did. During the season, teams sometimes refused to play them a second time. The league told them they could play only in the next division up.

The Big Dogs played at a level that did not allow full-court defense or zones, but the next level up did.

After a long discussion and much anger (their coach and parents made the point that the girls were being punished for winning), they decided to give it a shot, even though the girls they were going to play were 11 and 12, not 9 and 10, averaged about a foot taller and 40 pounds heavier per girl (according to the story - although that seems like a stretch to me).

They won the tournament against the bigger girls, winning the championship game 20-13.

Although their coaches insist they were good sports, one team got beat so bad during the regular season by the Big Dogs, they dropped out of the league.

Being on the Board of a local association similar to this one makes me think that if this was a competitive league, the other teams really don't have much of a beef, despite the age level. However, if this is strictly a rec league (and I don't know which), then the league needs to reevaluate at least two things: how teams are formed and "stacked", and how to train coaches in teaching their teams to practice good sportsmanship.

rainmaker · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 18, 2002, 01:03am

Mark, I saw this article, too, and wondered what your thoughts might be. I agree that the league should look at how the teams are formed. I have no patience for "competitive" ball at that age. The part that impressed me the most was that before this last "championship" game against the older and bigger girls, the coach told the girls, "We're not here to win or lose. It's just going to be a great learning experience." I have a lot of respect for any coach that starts a gme off with these words. On the other hand, the implication in the article was that this team was practicing three or four days a week, which I think is WAY TOO MUCH at this age. We're talking 9 years old. If this is how they won all their games, I'm strongly disapproving. Still, it was interesting that they could even BE that much better at that age. Mark, do you have any idea where exactly these gals call home base?

Mark Padgett · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 18, 2002, 01:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Mark, do you have any idea where exactly these gals call home base?

The story implied they are all from the Milwaukie area. I bet Brad Smith at Oregon City will be recruiting their parents to move the couple of miles into his area.

This is an inside joke for those of us who live in the Portland area. Brad Smith runs what is probably the most successful girls HS basketball program in the nation. His teams have won our state girls 4A title eight of the last eleven years, and were consensus national champs twice in that span. Milwaukie is in his conference.

Doug · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 18, 2002, 09:13pm

I agree with julie, at that age, that is not good. I ran into a very interesting man this season, he coaches a 4th grade girl's basketball team, and had a tourney every saturday from the middle of october through april, except on Christmas, which he was very upset he couldn't find a tournament. he practiced 5 days a week, including saturday, and got very frustrated when girls didn't show up on saturdays because they were going somewhere... as this man was complaining to me about all of this, I was just thinking, cmon' get a clue dude!

Slider · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 18, 2002, 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
They won the tournament against the bigger girls, winning the championship game 20-13.

Why not move them up to play tougher competition? They will just get better. The girls will benefit in the long run. The coach and parents should recognize that.

egausch · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 19, 2002, 09:19am

In the youth rec leagues I coach, we work extra hard to equalize the teams as much as possible during the draft and also fix the number of practices. Three or four a week is way beyond rec IMHO, and is even more than most of the travel teams get in my town. There just isn't the gym time. But even with the best of intents, there still are some "shinanigans" going on. One of the more popular is the handling of late sign-ups. Another is the tag teaming of coaches and assistants, when both have star players. One or two good players can really dominate a league at this age.
Obviously there is some unfair mis-balance here with this girls team. Enough so that, several coaches, and probably good coaches, refused to play against it. Considering also that there is no back court D and no zone D, then one or two star players are basically unstoppable at this age. Double teaming off a man on man matchup is just about impossible for this age of player. As much as I support restricting zone D at this age, there are situations where a good zone can help to equalize the teams. A debate that will never end, in youth hoops.
There's more to this "miracle" story than we know.
EG