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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 02:08pm
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Question

I'm hoping someone here can help me out.

I'm organizing a JV boys tournament next week and I'm having a hard time scheduling the games.

I'd initially planned for 8 teams, but now I'm up to 10 and having the hardest time setting up games.

Do you know of any sites that talk about different tournament formats depending on the number of teams?

Any help will be appreciated.

Ren
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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 02:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rgaudreau
I'm hoping someone here can help me out.

I'm organizing a JV boys tournament next week and I'm having a hard time scheduling the games.

I'd initially planned for 8 teams, but now I'm up to 10 and having the hardest time setting up games.

Do you know of any sites that talk about different tournament formats depending on the number of teams?

Any help will be appreciated.

Ren
Not a problem - just recruit 6 more teams.

Seriously, I remember seeing a site like this a long time ago, but unfortunately, I can't remember where it was.

Maybe if you look at the recent bracketing for your state and the NCAA tourneys you'll get some ideas. Also, your state athletic assn. may be able to help.
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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 02:31pm
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Ren,

I don't know of any sites with that information. But if you have fewer than 16 teams in the tournament, you generally want to have 8 teams left for the second round.

So with 10 teams, as you have now, you would have 4 teams play in the first round. Those 2 winners would then join the other 6 teams that had first round "byes". That gives you a nice, neat 8 team format.

If you get one more team, then you have to have 6 out of the 11 teams play in the first round. The 3 winners join the 5 bye teams to round out your field of 8.

Does that help?

Now you just need to seed the teams. Good luck.

Chuck
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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 03:12pm
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There are many types of tourneys you can set up. Single elim., double elim. , or even round robin. They all have advants. and disadvants. A single elim. is the most typical and is based on numbers of teams = to powers of two, i.e. 2,4,8,16 teams. That's where the sweet sixteen and final four come from. If you have a tourney where the number of teams is not equal to power of two, then you need to add in some number of place holders, fake teams, to get up to the next power of two. For example with 10 teams, you add in 6 fake teams. Now you have 16 teams and can run a single elim. The next thing is seeding. You don't want the #1 team to play the #2 team. So #1 plays #16, #2 plays #15, etc. So with 10 teams and 6 fake teams placed at the bottom of the order, the top 6 teams get a bye. They play the 6 fake teams. Just sketch out the "tree" starting with 16 slots in first round, then 8, then 4, then 2. Seed the teams so higher ranking team always plays the lower ranking team. One way to figure out the initial seeding is to assume there are no upsets. Start from the last round and work your way back to the first. Last round #1 plays #2. Semis, #1 plays #4 and in the other bracket #2 plays #3. Work your way back and you'll get the typical seeding for a single elim. tourney. I'd be happy to e-mail a better description or picture if you'd like.
EG
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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rgaudreau
I'm hoping someone here can help me out.

I'm organizing a JV boys tournament next week and I'm having a hard time scheduling the games.

I'd initially planned for 8 teams, but now I'm up to 10 and having the hardest time setting up games.

Do you know of any sites that talk about different tournament formats depending on the number of teams?

Any help will be appreciated.

Ren
Sure, follow the links;

Used this one for years.
http://www.crowsdarts.com/brackets/playoff-chart.html

Same place but a little different.

http://www.crowsdarts.com/brackets/tourn.html

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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 05:48pm
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software

There is a software program out called Tournament Builder. I have used it and does a great job.

They have a limited-free version but does up to 16 teams, you may want to check them out. It's called tournament builder express (If you do a tournament with this software you'll need to make sure it does auto-seed otherwise you'll get a funky bye)

http://www.sportsmvp.com/tools/tbexpressDL.php/

There is also some software out there called Matchmaker. does a great job on single elim tournaments but does some funky things with byes and double elim
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Old Thu Mar 14, 2002, 08:32pm
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Thanks for the replies.

I will check out the software you've recommended.

It's difficult to organise a 10 team tournament in 2 days. I was also hoping to garantee each team a minimum of 3 games.

I'll cross my fingers and see how it turns out.

Ren
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Old Fri Mar 15, 2002, 12:15am
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rgaudreau

Quote:
Originally posted by rgaudreau
Thanks for the replies.

I will check out the software you've recommended.

It's difficult to organise a 10 team tournament in 2 days. I was also hoping to garantee each team a minimum of 3 games.

I'll cross my fingers and see how it turns out.

Ren
Let us know what you did and how it went!
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Old Fri Mar 15, 2002, 12:33am
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Pool Play

This is the way that I see most of the summer leagues played.

10 Teams=2 pools of 5 teams

Pool A
1a
2a
3a
4a
5a

Pool B
1b
2b
3b
4b
5b


All teams play in their pool and get seeded according to pool placement (point differential for tie breakers). Then the best team from pool A plays the worst team from pool B. You will probably have to eliminate the worst team from each pool to get the bracket to fill out nicely, each team will get a minimum of four games this way.

For example:
Game 1: 1a vs 4b
Game 2: 2a vs 3b
Game 3: 3a vs 2b
Game 4: 4a vs 1b

Then:
Game 5: G1 winner vs G2 winner
Game 6: G3 winner vs G4 winner

Finally:
Game 7: G5 loser vs G6 loser (consolation, but not necessary)
Game 8: G5 winner vs G6 winner (championship game)

The consolation game is nice because it gives the two teams playing for the championship a breather before their game.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 15, 2002, 09:39am
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This format works nicely. I've worked it out on paper.

Problem with it is that it works out to 28 games or at a minimum 27 if we dont play a consolation.

It would be practically impossible to play that in the gym time that I've been allotted. (Thu night and Friday day).

What if I pre-seeded the teams? I can pretty much seed the teams according to season rankings. Would that simplify things somewhat?

You guys have really been great with your suggestions. I really appreciate it!

Ren
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 15, 2002, 09:51am
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Posts: 17,373
Quote:
Originally posted by rgaudreau
This format works nicely. I've worked it out on paper.

Problem with it is that it works out to 28 games or at a minimum 27 if we dont play a consolation.

It would be practically impossible to play that in the gym time that I've been allotted. (Thu night and Friday day).

What if I pre-seeded the teams? I can pretty much seed the teams according to season rankings. Would that simplify things somewhat?

You guys have really been great with your suggestions. I really appreciate it!

Ren
Seed the teams, play a double elimination tournament. That's 18 or 19 games. The seeded teams will get a by, and someone won't like it.

Have the two teams that lose the first two games play each other (to get them three games). Total 19 or 20 games.

OR, find two more teams and set up three brackets of 4 teams. ROund robin = 18 games. Top in each bracket, plus "wild card" move on (You'll need to decide the criteria). 3 or 4 games = 21 or 22 total.
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Old Fri Mar 15, 2002, 11:40am
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hi bob,

I've been working on this all morning and I think I've got it worked out exactly the way you recommended.

I know that other teams will complain about the by, especially since my team is ranked number 1 and will be getting it.

The nice thing about setting it up this way is that teams will get at least 2 games, and some of the teams will get up to 5. I think most of the teams will be able to live with this.

Thanks for the help.

Ren
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 16, 2002, 01:01am
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Posts: 1,718
Try this site:

http://www.littleleague.org/manuals/llbbrackets.pdf

Bob
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