I had a situation a few weeks ago in a High School boys game that I would like to hear your opinions on.

Team A had the ball with 23 seconds remaining on the shot clock when an off ball double foul was called against players A1 and B1. The result of the foul is giving the ball to the team with the alternating possession (AP) arrow. Team A had the arrow pointing in their direction, so they keep the ball.

The conflict we had was whether or not to reset the shot clock. Normally, you reset the shot clock on every foul. For AP however, the shot clock is only reset if the team possession changes. Which rule applies to double fouls if possession doesn't change? Thanks for your help.

p.s. we didn't reset it and gave the ball to Team A with 23 seconds on the shot clock.

You did the right thing, any time you go to the arrow, and the same team maintains control of the ball, the shot clock stays at the time you had before the foul, jump ball or whatever.

I believe the clock resets. NCAA rule 2.13.b states that the shot clock operator should "stop the timing device and reset it when team control is again established after the team loses possession of the ball, WHEN A FOUL OCCURS, when a held ball occurs except for 2.13.c.4, when a try for goal strikes the basket ring, or when a violation occurs.

2.13.c.4 states that "during team control as defined in Rule 4.7.b, a defensive player causes a held ball and the possession arrow favors the offensive team.

You didn't have that here. The double foul caused you to go to the arrow not a defensive player causing a held ball.

Therefore, in this situation, you go to the arrow but the shot clock is fully reset regardless of whether the offensive team got the ball according to the AP or not.

I have to agree with Walt. The foul should reset the clock.

New NCAA rule last year, I believe: reset shot clock on all fouls EXCEPT for a double foul. For a double foul, I'm pretty sure (no rule book at hand) the ball goes back to the team that had control at the time of the foul--no AP use in this situation, and no shot clock reset.

Guy's, this is a good question.
Everyone is responding per NCAA rules, how about high school???
I approached our area's rules interpreter who ref's both high school and college of this same question. He informed me of the rules for college and of the recent changes, but didn't know off hand if the rules were the same for high school games.
We only know of rules covering the shot clock by what we've been informed of for high school.
Does anyone here have the rules or know of the differences if any for use of the shot clock in high school play?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCBroncos on 02-03-2000 04:05 PM
I had a situation a few weeks ago in a High School boys game that I would like to hear your opinions on.

Team A had the ball with 23 seconds remaining on the shot clock when an off ball double foul was called against players A1 and B1. The result of the foul is giving the ball to the team with the alternating possession (AP) arrow. Team A had the arrow pointing in their direction, so they keep the ball.

The conflict we had was whether or not to reset the shot clock. Normally, you reset the shot clock on every foul. For AP however, the shot clock is only reset if the team possession changes. Which rule applies to double fouls if possession doesn't change? Thanks for your help.

p.s. we didn't reset it and gave the ball to Team A with 23 seconds on the shot clock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


NCAA -- shot clock does not reset and the team with the ball retains possession.

NFHS -- AP throw in and the clock resets regardless of who gets the AP.

10-12-f (NCAA) states that the team in possession of the ball at the time of the double foul retains possession at the spot nearest to where the foul occurred but does not address the shot clock. I couldn't find anything in this year's rule book that addresses the shot clock in this situation. I was looking for my notes from the interpretation meetings but have not been able to find them. Is the shot clock resetting or not addressed in the rule book other than what I quoted in my last post? That's what I was going by when I said that it resets (page BR-44, Rule 2-13, NCCAA Rule Book).

When I talked about going to the arrow I meant to say under the NF. Sorry.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by walt on 02-09-2000 03:08 PM
10-12-f (NCAA) states that the team in possession of the ball at the time of the double foul retains possession at the spot nearest to where the foul occurred but does not address the shot clock. I couldn't find anything in this year's rule book that addresses the shot clock in this situation. I was looking for my notes from the interpretation meetings but have not been able to find them. Is the shot clock resetting or not addressed in the rule book other than what I quoted in my last post? That's what I was going by when I said that it resets (page BR-44, Rule 2-13, NCCAA Rule Book).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Walt-

Isn't this new rule applied only to during throw-ins? Double fouls on other live-ball situations still go to the AP. (Rule 4-14-f)

Well this is news to me, what states are using shot clock in H.S.? IS this a experimental rule?

Pizanno, you are correct. That'll teach me to review what I write before posting. I'm just getting into the college level so it has been been a big adjustment keeping everything straight! Bart, Maryland high school girls use a 30 second shot clock as well as some of the non-PIAA (Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association)high school leagues (length depends upon the league). Maryland uses NF rules except for the shot clock as do most of the non-PIAA leagues. There are some leagues in PA that use a mix of NF and NCAA (i.e. on release of free throws instead of ball hitting the rim). It can be confusing.

Pizanno, I don't know about NCAA mens, But NCAA womens."double foul-team control" Ball stays with team in control and NO reset of the clock.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bart Tyson on 02-10-2000 05:00 PM
Pizanno, I don't know about NCAA mens, But NCAA womens."double foul-team control" Ball stays with team in control and NO reset of the clock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


hmm...really? You have a rule cititation? My NCAA Men's / Women's Rule differences chart by IABBO doesn't list this.

Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong!

some how i knew you would ask. Sorry I don't have the book with me. You are correct about the rule book. I'm thinking this is a new rule this year, or last year? you know how it is trying to remember which year a rule took effect. I do remember a big discussion. the book wording wasn't totally clear. the final word came down through NCAA memos. It had to do with Throw-ins. The book made it sound like for throw-ins only.