NFHS and Replay - Its Time

[Larks]

I submit after the SC, Oklahoma and now Ohio finishes and with video everywhere, its time the Fed gives us the ability to leave no speculation. At least for tournament games.

Ohio D1 girls Story
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...20367/-1/CINCI

[Scrapper1]

While I agree that some video could be allowed, the devil is in the details, as they say. What kind of video equipment is allowed to be used? A camera from the crowd? Or only a courtside monitor from a TV feed?

When can it be used? Last second shot only? Or also to identify a free throw shooter? To identify participants in a fight? To check if the clock started or stopped properly?

They would have to be very specific and very careful about how it's implemented, I think. But like I said, I agree that we should have access to it if it's available.

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

While I agree that some video could be allowed, the devil is in the details, as they say. What kind of video equipment is allowed to be used? A camera from the crowd? Or only a courtside monitor from a TV feed?

When can it be used? Last second shot only? Or also to identify a free throw shooter? To identify participants in a fight? To check if the clock started or stopped properly?

They would have to be very specific and very careful about how it's implemented, I think. But like I said, I agree that we should have access to it if it's available.

This can be solved in the fiba way, wich is
the Referee must approve all video equipment wich can be used before the start of the game, if it isn't aproved before the start you're not allowed to use it.
It may only be used to determine if a last second shot (buzzer beater) was released in time, the video shall not be used for any other infraction.

I think this is a good rule, but I also think that one thing should be added, wich is that officials should be able to use video to replay a fight-sequence.
Since it is nearly impossible to remember everything that happens in such a sequence if it's a big one the officials should be allowed to do this, otherwise you may end up with one official trying to break up the fight and the other standing with a notebook writing down nr's (this has happened! During the european championships in sweden a few years ago).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Larks

I submit after the SC, Oklahoma and now Ohio finishes and with video everywhere, its time the Fed gives us the ability to leave no speculation. At least for tournament games.

Ohio D1 girls Story
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...20367/-1/CINCI

Originally Posted by Kathryn Reynolds

I thought the buzzer was going to go off before I shot that layup, but it didn't. Thank God for that.

Ms. Reynolds,

God will give you a mulligan on that one.

Some analysis:

Using my highly scientific approach of repeated stopwatch results, the time difference in slow-motion between red light on and release of the ball is 0.5s.

The same scientific approach tells me that the slow-motion ratio is 0.7s real-time to 2.7s slow-motion. This ratio yields a real-time time difference between release and red light of less than 1/7th of a second.

Amazing... but clearly the shot was not released in time. Oh well.

[Back In The Saddle]

I will say that I read the whole article before I watched the video. But to me, at full speed it looked like the shot didn't get off. Tough call either way.

Other than the state tournament, there aren't too many high school games that get televised and would have video replay available. So even once they worked out the details, it would still be a moot point for 99% of the games anyway.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Other than the state tournament, there aren't too many high school games that get televised and would have video replay available.

It doesn't necessarily have to be televised. They might allow the use of a team-owned camcorder that has been used for the entire game from a single location, for example. I'm not saying that's a great idea, just that the NFHS could make its own definition of what a usable replay device would be. That's why I said the devil is in the details.

[rockyroad]

And the replay would have to have the clock visible somehow - either as an inset or show the entire court with the clock visible...And the replay would have to have sound in order to hear the horn (at least for NFHS)...And the replay would have to be somewhere we could get at it easily - at the table, not up in the stands or anything...And it would have to be the same throughout a state...And - there's just way too many "and"'s to add here. I just don't see it happening for HS games.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And the replay would have to have the clock visible somehow - either as an inset or show the entire court with the clock visible...And the replay would have to have sound in order to hear the horn (at least for NFHS)...And the replay would have to be somewhere we could get at it easily - at the table, not up in the stands or anything...And it would have to be the same throughout a state...And - there's just way too many "and"'s to add here. I just don't see it happening for HS games.

I agree.

AND it could not be mandatory because providing it will cost money.

[Larks]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And the replay would have to have the clock visible somehow - either as an inset or show the entire court with the clock visible...And the replay would have to have sound in order to hear the horn (at least for NFHS)...And the replay would have to be somewhere we could get at it easily - at the table, not up in the stands or anything...And it would have to be the same throughout a state...And - there's just way too many "and"'s to add here. I just don't see it happening for HS games.

I submit only for games at the state level (basically final 4s and championships).

30 extra min pre-game for the refs for training on the system.

2 monitors - 1 for training in the locker room, 1 at the table. Make this part of the TV contract. 2 head sets - 1 for training, 1 at the table.

Only review baskets at the end of quarters and baskets at the end of the 4th or OT that decide the game. 2s vs 3s can be looked at if they fall into this criteria. Thats it.

Money? Are you kidding!!

For state games, At $7 - 10 a head x thousands of fans x games, the money is there. Also, TV affiliate pays each state for the rights to broadcast the games. Money is not the problem and its insulting to suggest that they cant pull this off for one weekend because of money.

This is an easy thing for the TV guys. I used to work in the Reds scoreboard which shared a booth with the Jumbo-tron production. You are talking a couple 15" Monitors, some cable and a headset. You are not talking re-inventing TV production believe me. They already have tape rolling for replay.

From an NFHS perspective, allow states to authorize replay for any games that are broadcast on TV at their discretion.

And please dont go saying this is "just High School". Every High School basketball tournament is worth millions of dollars in economic activity not to mention the bell cow along with football in terms of revenue. Teams play and work for months. Officials work for years, sometimes their whole career to reach this game. You want to look that guy in the eye and say "this is JUST a high school game so feel free to kick the biggest call of your career, no one will care. This is JUST an extension of the class room". Are you kidding. Give that official the tools to do the right thing when the stakes are at their highest. In todays day and age, video of his call will be on you tube before he gets home. No one should have to go through that.

I submit, the states will spend more time and money on their hospitality rooms during the tournament than they will need to spend on replay.

Make it happen

[ace]

this is a very slippery slope for HS games, though in some of your larger districts in Texas, you might not have a problem getting them to shell money out to do it right....

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Larks

I submit after the SC, Oklahoma and now Ohio finishes and with video everywhere, its time the Fed gives us the ability to leave no speculation. At least for tournament games.

Ohio D1 girls Story
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...20367/-1/CINCI

Except there will still be speculation when it's too close to call even by replay - ie, the South Carolina 4A Boys Championship.

To me, there's no doubt that a game or two could be impacted every year. The question is whether it's worth the time, effort, and money to make replay available. This is still high school sports, and every other decision in the game is made by humans. And the questions to be asked - do we allow officials to fix timing errors? What if in the example above the replay does in fact show the shot isn't off, but it also shows the clock started a fraction of a second early but that isn't reviewable?

We'll never remove speculation and missed calls from the game. I certainly wouldn't fight it as long as it's well thought out, but if I have to I'd vote for leaving it be.

[Man In Blue]

My question is this: "why did the officials throw the ball away with a 1 point lead? Wouldn't preventative officiating have called a foul on the steal?"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

Wouldn't preventative officiating have called a foul on the steal?"

Nope. Fouls are "game interrupters".

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Except there will still be speculation when it's too close to call even by replay - ie, the South Carolina 4A Boys Championship.

To me, there's no doubt that a game or two could be impacted every year. The question is whether it's worth the time, effort, and money to make replay available. This is still high school sports, and every other decision in the game is made by humans. And the questions to be asked - do we allow officials to fix timing errors? What if in the example above the replay does in fact show the shot isn't off, but it also shows the clock started a fraction of a second early but that isn't reviewable?

We'll never remove speculation and missed calls from the game. I certainly wouldn't fight it as long as it's well thought out, but if I have to I'd vote for leaving it be.

I understand your point, but the fact is, we aren't the ones who have to worry about the details. It's not like you are going to have to add a tripod to your equipment bag.

I am all for any decision that gives me more tools to make accurate decisions in the games I work.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

To me, there's no doubt that a game or two could be impacted every year. The question is whether it's worth the time, effort, and money to make replay available.

This is the same type of arguement that is being discussed in Major League Baseball. Use it only on home runs? Foul balls? Close plays on the bases? A catch or no catch? How many times a game can you use it?

Or do you make it more like football - only so many uses per game and your out? With penalties (lost TO) for misuse or a not overturned play? Should refs "go to the table for every close call with 2 min to go in the game.....?"

Certainly an interesting discussion.....but, at the HS level? Depending on how implemented games (and our long days) could be extended.....