This happened in a first round sub-state game. The lead official gives a very short blast on his whistle. It was obvious to me that it was inadvertent. IMO he anticipated a foul that did not occur. 'A' team scored the basket, B1 gets the ball to toss it to the lead official who just shakes his head "no" and points to put the ball into play.

Does an inadvertent whistle merit a dead ball situation? Or since team 'B' was taking the ball out of bounds anyway, was this a correct call?

By the book it is a dead ball. Are there sub's waiting to enter the game? Did the defense take off down the court? If there are no sub's and no defense trying to set up, I agree with the action. Just get the game going. What will be the benefit of stopping the clock for 2 seconds (or less) and then maybe having to explain why the clock stopped? If it is late in the game and the score is close, then the defense will be there and you have to follow the book.

You can't ignore the whistle. You tell the kids to play the whistle. Why? So that when they hear it, they will STOP what they're doing. Usually, this keeps a physical situation from escalating. But if we tell them to play the whistle, then we have to expect that they will do so. If the defense stops playing at the whistle, then that's an unfair advantage for the offense.

Since the whistle blew before the ball went in the basket, you have 2 choices:

1) If the ball is still in the shooter's hand, then waive off the basket and award the ball back to the offense (since they had control at the time of the whistle).

2) If the ball has been released, then it's good if it goes and endline throw-in for B; if the shot does not go in then award the ball according to the AP.

You cannot ignore an official's whistle. Figure out when it happened and then decide where the ball was when it blew.

Chuck

When did the whistle happen?

If it was while the ball was still in A1's hand(s), then (by rule) the ball became dead on the whistle. No basket and give the ball back to A.

If it was after the ball left A1's hands, then count the basket and give the ball to B (whether the whistle came before or after the basket).

I saw this happen during girls regional in La a number of years ago. I traveled with these three big time college and state tourney level officials to watch them nail the game. There was an inadvertent whistle and the players paused. This gave the ball handler an open lane for a lay-up. All three officials made eye contact but they never called the ball dead. The guy who we thought had whistled told us at half time that it came from the crowd. They continued with a no call and the basket counted. It did not become a factor at the end of the game. I think they blew it.

If the whistle did come from the crowd, they should have immediately stopped the game. It was obvious (to me) that it did affect play. The technical to the home team may be an option here. If it was a ref's inadvertent whistle as we thought, there should have been an immediate second whistle to stop play with subsequent throw-in to make the ball live again.

I think ChuckElias is correct in the way to handle this situation.

The whistle came after the shot. The lead even made a gesture like he was going to raise his fist for the foul, but then quickly lowered it. Like I said, I believe he anticipated the foul which never occurred. I was there to watch the officials that night to try and learn from them (which I did, they did a great job). The game was a given from the outset.

Isn't it great to have a job where you can "Whistle While You Work"?

Just call me Grumpy.

OK, OK - I know the "Dopey" jokes are going to come now.

I had an inadvertent whistle tonight that I would have given anything to have been able to suck the sound back into the whistle.

The Visitors have the ball and are down by six points with less than forty seconds left in the game. We are a two man crew and I am Trail on the table side, right in front of Head Coach, Visitors. I am anticipating a timeout request by the Visitors if they score, which they do (score that is). Head Coach Visitors puts his hands up in a diamond shape that looks somewhat like the timeout signal and starts to shout diamond (the press he wants his team to use), but because my earing is as good as my eye sight and the crowd was really rocking, his diamond sounded like the start of timeout. You guessed it I put air in the whistle for a timeout for the Visitors.

As soon as I put air in the whistle, I knew I had blown (both the whistle and the call). We got the ball back into play immediately after I told both coaches that I had just made a very embarassing mistake.

Bob - even if the shooter had begun the continuous motion that normally leads to a shot? Tough sell here.

What is IMO??????

Two things...
Mark, I have never seen you but I would never have taken you for an "ear ring" type of guy. Which ear? Discerning fans want to know! ;)

Second, I have had several times I wanted to recall the sound from a whistle. If that's the worst you can do, YOU ARE THE MAN!

twh

IMO=In my opinion
IMHO=In my humble opinion
IMFO=In my humble opinion

Continuous motion applies only when there is a foul by the defense. It doesn't apply on an inadvertant whistle.

Dang, not only am I blind in one eye, can't see out of the other and deaf in both ears, I can't even type now. I meant "hearing."

i think you have options here. if the players did not react to the whistle and continued playing without hesitation you could probly get away with ignoring it. but if players react to the whistle then the officials need to bite the bullet and reset the play.
this is similar to the table inadvertently sounding the horn. if the players stop(especially visiting team and highscool players) and pass the ball to the official or travel or something else then it would be best for the game to reset even though they are supposed to play through it. if the horn did not effect anyone then ignore it. in a college game i would try to read the situation and do what is best for the game.

The best thing to do here is to keep your air in your stomach area and have a slow and deliberate whistle. People that have these things happen to them, is due to the fact that their whistle is "fast", they anticipate a play happening, or they just freeze up in a situation they have never seen before.

Let the play start, develop and finish and then react appropriately by blowing a whistle or not blowing the whistle.

Now don't take this out of context. This can happen to anybody. Just giving some ideas on how to prevent it. Although I can say it has never happened to me before (knocking on wood as I type).

This is no different than a cheap "and 1" play. We react to the play and blow to soon. (By the way, this has happened to me). This is much more difficult to master. Or we blow on the play because we don't see it all the way from start to finish and we could have held our whistle because the contact was marginal at best. Obviously, the more plays you see, the easier this becomes in both instances of the inadvertant whistle and the cheapy "and 1" plays with minimal contact.

A good indicator that you are holding that whistle back is if at about the time you actually blow the whistle someone, usually a howler monkey, is calling for the foul or violation thinking that you have missed it because you didn't blow it immediately. The only negative of this is sometimes it looks like the individual is helping you call the game. I have had the other coach tell me to not let them call the game for me.

That is good sound advise. Thanks. I have an opportunity to go to a day of the NAIA Tournament in Kansas City next weekend. I'm looking forward to watching the officials and learning from them.

[Edited by Rev.Ref63 on Mar 7th, 2002 at 07:38 PM]

"If the whistle did come from the crowd, they should have immediately stopped the game."

Why?:confused:
Stopping the play because a whistle comes from the crowd accomplishes what the misguided fan in the stands wanted.
IMO let that play continue, if the basket is made, hit your whistle, find security, tell them about the problem, let them handle it. Maybe even have the table make an announcement to the crowd with the resulting consequences. If it happens again, then I agree a "T"
would be an option, but ONLY as a last resort.

Just my own opinion, but you stop it immediately b/c at least some of the players will have acted properly; that is, they will have "played the whistle". Coaches and officials constantly remind players to "play the whistle". Work hard, hustle, go for every loose ball. . . until you hear a whistle. Then you stop, so that a good hustle play doesn't escalate into a shoving match. We ingrain this into the players.

So the smart players are going to hear the whistle and do what they've been trained to do. . .STOP. In my opinion, you can't let some of the players continue to play when other players have properly stopped competing.

This is basically the same point I made earlier in the thread regarding an official's inadvertant whistle. If you hear a whistle, the play is dead. If the whistle is blown by a fan, you penalize the fan's team. If the fan's team can't be determined, have the home management make an announcement to the crowd about further consequences.

Again, just my opinion. But if A1 stops playing b/c he heard a whistle, and B1 dribbles by him and dunks, I think Coach A has a legitimate (and loud) complaint.

Chuck

Chuck,
If those immediately around the play stopp dead, I agree.
Stop the play. I guess not having seen the play and reading in the original post that the player "paused", I would let the play continue.JMO. Once again, not having seen what was meant by "paused".

I agree that no matter what happens on the floor you have to stop the play. Someone is going to complain. More importantly if you do not stop play and take care of the idiot in the stands at that moment IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Stop it from happening again immediately.

There are very few reasons someone in the crowd of a basketball game would blow a Fox40. If one player pauses, the rest gain an advantage. Stop play, bring the game management/security over to the area, and have them deal with it.

I didn't say don't take care of the problem.
Once the basket is made. Get to the table, find security and have it dealt with.

Here's a scenario.
A1 is driving to the basket.
Clearly is past his defender.
Is in "shooting motion."
Overzealous fan with whistle now goes "tweet."(we've all heard of a late whistle haven't we?)
Are you going to wave it off?
(I'm being hypothetical, so humor me, ;) but for arguments sake.)

I can see your point in this sitch, but I think we all want to try and be consistent. In the above play it sounds like you could get away with letting the play finish.

I think that we have gone far a field on this situation. But, in the final analysis, if we put air in the whistle, we have stopped play, even if we put the air in the whistle inadvertently. We tell the players to play until they hear our whistle. I know that than we just want to crawl in the deepest hole we can find but we just have to suck it up and admit we inadverttently put air in the whistle and put the ball back into play in the fairest way possible.

And remember, there is not an official who has ever put on the stripes that has not blown and inadvertent whistle.

I just want to point out the fact that, at least in NF rules (6-7-5), the ball becomes dead when an official's whistle is blown. In the case where the defense stops and the dribbler blows by for an easy layup, I'm going to blow the play dead. If however, the dribbler already has the easy shot and is about to shoot, I'm holding my whistle until the shot is released (or maybe until someone grabs the rebound - not sure on this one). Either way, the fan is getting ejected.

Mark,
I think the point is to ignore the fan's whistle.
mick