Why was my Stanford/UCLA post taken down?
 

WTF is up with that? Unless I'm just missing it. There was no reason to take it down. The refs blew some calls late in the game and it hurt Stanford but that wasn't my only point.

So when is your camp starting?

If a post is spam or if there is some good reason then sure take it down but mine wasn't. Honestly, I don't know why people get so upset here when there is criticism of officials. They made bad calls because I believe they got caught up in the excitement of the last couple minutes and UCLA had momentum. The other parts of the game were fine.

I think I know why it got deleted. I'll try & not call you an azzhole again.

Carry on.

Your post wasn't targeted. The entire thread was deleted because the moderator felt it had degenerated into something counterproductive to the purposes of this board.

I haven't seen the game, nor have I seen replays of any particular calls that you may think were wrong. I will say, however, that the part I highlighted in red above is even more wrong-headed than your insinuation that the last couple minutes of regulation were horribly officiated.

You're either attacking their competence or their integrity. Which is it?

I think it was Nevadaref's fault for mentioning a program on ESPN radio - that made the moderators mad since it was an obvious and unnecessary plug for a different corporation!:)

Couldn't it just be he's drumming up interest for his camp?

It's possible. He's gonna need to do some serious marketing at those prices.

Oh? What was your point then? That you don't have a freaking clue when it comes to officiating basketball? That a so-called official with your limited knowledge and experience should keep away from trying to do something that you're not even remotely qualified to do....critique D1 officials? That you have the basic integrity level of the average clueless fanboy that shows up here to whine about the mean old officials?

Feel free to make your point again.

Be prepared when you do so.

Because the guys in black and white strips are our team.

Just a guess...but I'll bet this thread disappears as well. It's just taking up valuable server space.

How about if he throws in a 14" carrot?

He's an azzhole.

I never make promises that I can't keep.

my point was that in games when one team starts getting on a roll sometimes the officials start favoring the stronger team. It usually won't last and once the other team gets a few baskets it goes back. It doesn't happen a lot. I've seen it before in Duke and UNC games many times and high school games especially. Miami/UNC game last year when the Miami coach get ejected is an example. But the calls at the end of the Standford game were not consistent with how the game was officiated for the first 80% of the game. The game was called well just not at the end. I'm not a Stanford fan.

You can't get a 14" carrot from a 1" carrot person.

Simple mathematics.

You're not an official either, fanboy. You might masquerade as one, but you aren't one.

You won't understand that either.

What makes you qualified to make that statement? As a new official, you'd be well served to just try to absorb some of the knowledge here instead of offering derogatory opinions of officials far more skilled and experienced tahn yourself.

Do you mean the parts of the game when Stanford had the momentum and all the calls were going their way?

Couldn't possibly be that the calls "changed" because the game changed, could it? You have said yourself that UCLA was down and then went on a roll. Well, they must have adjusted something that caused the game to change - hence the calls will change to match what is now going on out on the court.

Add to that the fact that Stanford panicked as they felt things slipping away and it's no wonder that calls "went against" Stanford...but to say that the refs "got caught up in the excitement" is pretty silly. Those were some very experienced guys who knew what they were doing out there.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the team that is down playing a more aggressive defense and creating more fouls.... It has to be the refs fault.

I hope I never have to work with you. You must throw your partners under the bus all the time....

Edited to add: Rocky beat me by a minute on the same thought....

I'm not attacking the refs- I'm pointing out that refs sometimes join in with a team is on a roll. I don't think they are doing it on purpose but when a team starts making mistakes and one team gets on a roll sometimes calls will go their way. I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out and I saw it yesterday during the game when Stanford lost an 11 point lead. A lot of that was their fault as I said in my original post. Oh and the replays showed the refs made 3 bad calls in the last two minutes. One I don't blame on them because it did look like a foul but only with the on court cam that it was shown not to be a foul. The second no one was even touched. And the third happened with 3 seconds to go and it was a clean block but it was called a foul. Everyone makes mistakes but I'm just saying that the refs made calls they might not have had if UCLA was not on a roll.

--------


my point was that in games when one team starts getting on a roll sometimes the officials start favoring the stronger team. It usually won't last and once the other team gets a few baskets it goes back. It doesn't happen a lot. I've seen it before in Duke and UNC games many times and high school games especially.

No one here said you were a Stanford fan; nor do they give a sh!t. Their point is that as a new official, you aren't really qualified to critique the game with credibility.

I get it now. You're denigrating their competence.

I see a padlock in the very near future...

We know what your point is. Our point is that you're in the wrong place to make it. You need to find a fanboy site. You'd fit right in there.

You don't fit in here.

You can critique a call, mechanics, etc. We all miss or screw up a call. We try to learn from those mistakes by discussing them. You're not doing that. All you're doing is questioning the integrity of a D1 crew. And you see nothing wrong with that. That's very telling.

As a fan of basketball of course I can critique the calls. The holier than thou attitude here is ridiculous. yes, refs can decide games and yes poor officiating can cost a team a win. I haven't been ripping refs in my earlier posts. I'm merely point out the consistency of the calls changed in the last few minutes.

Nope. It's official. You don't get it and you likely never will.

Isn't there a saying? "You have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em" I think I'd be folding!!!!

You're not critiquing calls. If that's all you were doing, the response would be much more civil, even if we disagreed with you.

You're challenging the way the game was called. You're accusing the refs of letting their emotions get the better of them in a game.

We know exactly what you're pointing out. Your posting history here has been pretty consistent also. You don't know enough to critique D1 officials and you will never understand what people here are trying to tell you either.

Look breeze, take this (IMO) very sound advice. Don't come here as a fanboy to criticize officials. It will not be TOLERATED!! :mad:

OK...Well, if that's your point how about a thread where you discuss the 7 or 8 games this season where you determined the outcome and what you learned from it?

You most certainly are attacking the refs...on one hand you say that they "got caught up in the excitement" and then you say that Stanford started making mistakes. If Stanford is making mistakes, then of course calls will go against them...and saying that officials "get caught up" is attacking their abilities...

Then you start saying they "missed" calls...says who? You? So your judgement is now better than that of an experienced D-1 crew? Hard to believe...

If you're going to look at the game "as a fan", then go to a fansite where your posts are welcomed and accepted. Because posting here with that mentality, obviously, is not acceptable.

And until you can ref D1 ball to the level of other D1 officials, keep your deragotory remarks to yourself. Either respect your elders or go to a fanboy site and get it off your chest there. I think that's been mentioned once or twice before. <sarcasm>

Breeze...Listen...

http://www.last.fm/music/Kenny+Rogers/_/The+Gambler

Not a good way to get respect...
 

I will tell you one thing, if this is the mentality and attitude you have toward your fellow peers, you will not be highly regarded by many other officials.

This is one comment that will definitely put you on the chopping block amongst officials. By this comment, you are saying that neither teams performance and/or errors caused them to be in an unfavorable position late in the game? You are also saying that every turnover or missed shot or missed free throw had no influence on the game?

You should pick your thoughts and words a little better (especially as a new official) when discussing the judgment of others.

Fine. take out the whole Stanford/UCLA part. I haven't been coming here after seeing a game and criticizing the refs.
Most of the time I would say the following is just perception and can occur with a team being more aggressive but it does HAPPEN and refs should be careful to watch out for it.

Have refs been caught up in the excitement of a game, especially one that is close, and made calls that were not consistent with how the game was being called before. YES!

Do refs get caught up when a team is on a roll and start favoring the team with momentum? Yes again. These are lessons I'm learning. These mistakes happen less with NCAA and NBA refs but they do happen and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

I think the block was clean and this isn't a great example but it helps to show what I'm saying
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

You have no evidence to back up your claim that refs "get caught up when a team is on a roll and start favoring the team with momentum."

That's called projecting.

No no, this is projecting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-emQAsGMeQ

What he's doing is spewing.

Please provide specific examples to back up your claims. Please note the date of the game, who the teams were, who the officials were and where the box scores and statistics can be found to back up the claims.

I can claim that Big Foot walks through my back yard all the time but unless I have evidence to prove it, it ain't worth 2 5h!t5

Does this perceived excitment usually change how the players are playing the game? 99% of the time yes. Does this require the game to be called differently? 99% of the time yes. Does this cause an amatuer official/fanboy to think that the officals are calling the game differently? I think you know where I'm going with that one...

If one team gets on the bad end of a 10-0 run, usually it's because something in their game has changed. Maybe they're not playing good defense, not moving their feet, and fouling. Maybe one team is sitting back in a zone of defense and attacking the bucket on offense, therefore not fouling much and drawing a bunch of fouls on the other end. Maybe you're perceiving this as officials calling the game "differently," rather than just doing their jobs.

You're not looking at the big picture, and probably not quite educated enough (in regards to officiating, I'm sure you're a smart guy that your mother is proud of) to be running your mouth like you have been today...

Sigh.....

As predicted, he used some fanboy blog to try and back up his nonsense.

Go away, fanboy. Shoo, shoo......

From ths article: "Now, even with every call, Haith wasn't going to win this game."

So the refsf didn't give the game awway.

Whatever. Those two questions I posted are legitimate. If you disagree with the answers that is fine.
Perhaps because many of you haven't played in so long you are forgetting. But players, fan and coaches will answer Yes to both. In most instances I do think it is perception and they are wrong but it does HAPPEN.

Aha...now we are getting somewhere! In one of your earlier posts you flat-out stated that the calls were bad calls and that the refs missed them...here you add the words "you think" it was a clean block. When you can fully comprehend the difference between those two statements, then it will be time for you to leave the temple, grasshopper.

I havnt been refing long, but one thing I've learned is that fans, coaches and players are one-sided. THey aren't neutral. THe refs work hard to be nutral. Aat least the good ones do. WHen yuo say yure a fan, you show that your not beinh\g a ref. You just cant do both..

edited to fix typing == some of it

also to add: My brain has a couple of "wiring proglems". I don't always understand metaphors or sarcasm. Hints and allusions do work for me. But logic I can do quite well. Thinking logically, D1 refs have to be the MOST neutral, the MOST unemotional, the MOST dispassionate. They have to be the highest quality. If you put that thought as the assumption in your arguement, you quickly arrive at the only possible conclusion in answering the question, "Are the refs giving away the game?" If A, then B = The best refs don't give away the game.

Because they care who wins. The officials are the ONLY objective parties involved in the game.

Dang it...just when I think we are getting somewhere, then you go and talk about what the players, fans, and coaches think. Since we aren't any of those groups and can't look at the game the same way any of those groups do, I guess you aren't quite ready to walk on the rice-paper or carry that red-hot pot of coals.

oh and I did work with an older more experienced official this year for a JV girls game who told me afterward he made a couple of calls he wished he didn't at the end of the game. He was sweating and I thought the coach yelling and the excitement of a close game got to him.
So keep up with the name calling all you guys want but I'm sticking to my points and can anyone honestly answer No to the two questions? Everyone makes mistakes and refs should work to limit them. I observed some things and I want to avoid it when I ref games.

Let me get this right. Since a partner you had this year told you he regretted a couple of calls, you made the mental leap to assume it was because the coaches got to him? Did he say as much, or did you make an assumption you're not qualified to make? Those are your only two options here.

Do refs make calls they regret? All the time.
Does that qualify a newby to say the excitement got to them? Absolutely not.

Frankly, if your partner was flustered by the excitement of a JV game, that's probably the highest level he's worked.

Refs are objective but there are factors that can sway them. the crowd, coaches, players perhaps. close game and to a lesser extent if a team has momentum but that is my theory.

There's your problem right there. We aren't players, fans or coaches. We're officials. You're not. And until you stop thinking like a player, fan or coach, you will never be one of us.

Right now, you're just another back-stabbing, integrity-free douchebag of a fanboy who doesn't have any kind of clue what officiating is all about.

Just because you have a theory, doesn't make it true.

You can be swayed so everyone else must also be swayable?

edited to correct typing.

Hello...? You people are arguing with someone who's view of experienced officiating is some guy blew some calls because he thinks he may have gotten swept up in the intensity of just being there to witness the beauty, pagentry and spectacle of a JV girls game.

Please, have some perspective. He really doesn't know what he's talking about, and he certainly is not interested in learning from you.

Let alone in hearing what you have to say.

Sigh.....

Yes, fanboy. Officials don't have any balls. None of 'em. Especially the ones that work D1 ball. Happy now?

Good. Piss off.

We're just wasting our time with this particular troll.

Before this thing gets locked... let me just add

Plethora. Veritable plethora.

Its. A. Plethora.

http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/...tewie_evil.jpg

In 21 years of officiating, I've never been "swayed" by the crowd, coaches, players, the fact that a game was close or whether a team had momentum. NEVER!

OK, except for that one time when that female coach in the tight pants was such a babe that whenever I was near her bench and she bent over I just.....well, never mind. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/woot.gif

And Dan, I don't care what you say, it never happened with a male coach. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/seinfeld/...ings.wrong.jpg

breeze,

Is it possible for you to address this?

How about a thread where you discuss the 7 or 8 games this season where you determined the outcome and what you learned from it?

Resort to name calling all you want. have you answered my two questions? I do not see anything wrong with them.
As for mistakes I've made them and everyone does at any level. The replays in the Stanford game showed the calls were wrong but everyone makes calls like that
Can someone honestly say that at a game with a home crowd going crazy that the refs might make a call they would normally not make when the game was less intense? Sure it happens less with better refs but it does happen and it is total BS if you want to claim otherwise. all right just about the last post on this topic. Now on to why the star players get the calls? Jordan, Kobe etc. :D

Liked that one, eh? Did it give you a pilomotor reaction(probably singular in your case)?

Yes, lots of people can. If you can't, that's your problem.

Stick to basketball....we're not discussing the NBA.

Plethora. Of the veritable variety.

Well... I don't know about all them high faluttin' $10 words yer throwing around my friend, but I do know it gave me goose bumps.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...cingStewie.gif

And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is, Jefe.

Can someone honestly say that at a game with a home crowd going crazy that the refs might make a call they would normally not make when the game was less intense?


And I'm sure many refs here can answer they have stayed objective and consistent(Edit) although it seems to be a touchy subject so I'm sure many of you have had really close games and questioned your judgment on a call late in a game. But it does happen and even the best refs might make mistakes in these situations.

Geeze JR, you're really working hard....errr... strike that... you really want to get this puppy shut down dontchya?

I don't know about consistent (tough to define, and always defined differently by coaches, players, and fans than by officials), but I can claim I've always been objective. Have I made mistakes? Yes. Do I blame the intensity of the game? No.

If you're getting overwhelmed by the intensity of momentum, then you're reffing above your paygrade.

Then as a new official shouldn't you be citing plays that involved you instead of plays the top level of NCAA b-ball?

Shouldn't you ask advice or opinions about the calls you made that caused a team to lose? You need to learn from your own mistakes first. Not those of officials who are ref'n an entirely different brand of basketball than you do.

yah that consistency word can be tough to define for refs because there are different types of plays. I've done very well late in the games. One of my first games I thought my partner and I didn't do a good job. Since then I wanted to do better and my close games have gone very well. Mistakes happen but it should be about the refs and the play on court. But other factors can contribute to bad calls and I say this can affect any level of referee. That is not to say every referee will be swayed but again I'm claiming that it does occur.

Perhaps I can help, Breeze. Here's a way you could have posted your questions that may have been received better:

"I was watching the Stanford/UCLA game last night, and replay showed there were a couple of calls that were questionable that went against Stanford. Obviously the officials have different angles and it's impossible to know exactly what they called at times. These are certainly excellent officials and I'm sure they felt very confident in their calls, and I don't know enough to critique their performance.

That said, it got me thinking about whether officials, as humans, can totally block out the emotion of the game. I've experienced times in my lower-level games where I, or where I've sensed my partners, have struggled to maintain consistency. I wonder if it's due to the emotion of a team going on a run, and/or the crowd.

What do you all do to keep emotions in check throughout the game and not get caught up in the excitement and exhilaration of the game? Do you think, even at high levels, that officials can be impacted by the emotion of the game?"

This question probably wouldn't be well-received by all - it's probably better asked without talking about the specific game at all, but it would have at least given the opportunity for real discussion. Instead you chose to accuse D-I officials of throwing a game because they got caught up in the emotion of the stronger team's run.

I hope this helps for all future posting. We stick together here, and have each others' backs when it comes to integrity and purpose.

Good luck to you.

Your thread got yanked because it

a) was dumb.
b) incited some inflammatory, counter-productive material.
c) was dumb.

End of story.

:rolleyes:

Wow. "Consistency" is a tough word to define for REFS????? But you in your first year or two, are doing just great with it? I agree with those who recommend you start a camp. We all have a lot to learn from you.

This is all just too funny for words.

yah it would have been better to do it that way. JR still would have acted like the douche of the universe that he is but perhaps fewer would have joined in. I did say Stanford may have lost even if the calls didn't go their way and that the game was officiated well overall.


later

Rain, I was replying to these comments by Snaqwells.
"I don't know about consistent (tough to define, and always defined differently by coaches, players, and fans than by officials), but I can claim I've always been objective. Have I made mistakes? Yes. Do I blame the intensity of the game? No.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Que...C12146699.jpeg

I NOW DUB THEE....DOUCHE OF THE UNIVERSE!

You may now, arise...say is that a carrot in your pocket or are you glad to see me?

I didn't say it was hard to define. I said you'll have a hard time getting coaches, players, and fans to agree with officials on how to define it. My point is simple. The fact that mistakes are made does not mean they were made because of the emotions of the game.

You don't blame them on the intensity when you commit them, but you do when the D1 refs commit them (if they really did, which is also apparently only by your judgment?) Interesting.

These top level refs who have more experience, training, skill, emotional control and respect of their assignors, than almost anyone on this board -- they are "making mistakes" that you aren't?? Wow. Just wow.

The denial is mine. :)

Our friend here is projecting his own shortcomings onto the D1 refs he observed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...stanford.ucla/

""That was block," said Collison. "That was a complete block. We were fortunate to get a foul called. I heard it was a make-up [call].":p

There were calls before that too. If it were just this play I wouldn't be complaining. I defended the ref in that Georgetown-Nova game when GT went to the line at the end of the game. My theory is the refs got caught up with the team on a roll. Are those great refs? Sure. Could I be wrong? Yes again. But it happens and it may have happened in the game.

Your theory is based on what?

Yes, I will say it, and honestly. If you think that happens, then it's obvious not only do you know nothing about officiating, but you'd better get out of it quick because your posts imply you have no intent to demonstrate integrity when it comes to officiating. You are looking for a rationalization for you making incorrect calls.

Breeze.............now you're quoting a 20 year old player and siding with his view? He heard it was a makeup call? Innuendo, heresay, rumor, he said she said. C'mon!

I made the stoopid mistake when I first started posting here regarding O.J. Mayo's tripping an official that it looked like the official flopped( which of course he didn't). I was rightly taken to task and put in my place and told to get lost. I deserved every bit of it. This is not the place to rip officials judgement and question their integrity. With all due respect, do what I did...........STFU.

Go tell a friend your story, not the reffing community.


By the way, I went to the youtube video and I thought it was the right call, a courageous call.

I humbly accept the honor.

And so it is written, so shall it be!

Um...so where do you put the crown?

Actually, I think that anyone really cares if anyone else questions an official's judgment on an individual call. Or even if they say that the officials didn't have a very good game. Or that they stunk the joint out. We all make those mistakes and we've all been there. However, when you start questioning an official's integrity and intimate that officials are homers or that they will deliberately favor one team over another, etc., then you've crossed the line and landed in Fanboyland.

I'm kinda amazed that it hasn't sunk into this particular fanboy's thick head yet that there is unanimous disdain for his position. That's kinda amazing in itself because we(officials on this forum) never usually come close to agreeing unanimously on anything.:)

I hoist it on my petard.

Or on my carrot......

I always pictured the crown to be bigger than that.

http://statica.wisegeek.com/images/c...-carrots-s.jpg

Oh well.

People can say I was too harsh in my op and I can accept that. But I haven't been calling the refs homers or questioning their integrity. By integrity I mean a ref stays neutral and objective and is not purposefully favoring a team. I think most of the refs are neutral and remain so throughout the game. But I feel if a team gets on a roll sometimes refs may favor that team. I can't say if that is true or not
But I strongly feel that refs can be swayed at the end of the game. They may not realize they are doing it and they might think they are being objective but the pressures from a close game, the coaches and fans may cause them to make calls they would not normally make. all right really last post. time to move on to uncontroversial topics like gun control and abortion.

No need for any further comment at all after these little gems.......kinda speaks for themselves. :rolleyes:

Lord Jurassic, Douche of the Universe.

http://www.aldenbates.com/g/carrot1.jpg

Yup, it's just your opinion and has nothing to do with what is TRUE and what is NOT TRUE. Even you say that you don't know the truth, just your own feelings. In other words, everything you have posted is meaningless.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra.../feedtroll.gif

Thing is guys, whether it was a foul or not, move on... That was last night. If it wasn't a foul, we have to move on and learn from it. So lets all drop the issue.

That about sums it up. Missed layups, missed FTs, bad defense, poor passes, etc. have no bearing on a game's outcome. Why don't you call your camp "Old School Officiating"?

And make sure to go over this in camp.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=42508

Is that what your extensive officiating experience tells you?

You think displacement is a violation and that only a player with the ball can hook an opponent. Yet, you're an expert who can evaluate D-I officials.

Now maybe you can tell us, WTF is up with that?

I'm going to say this one more time.

If your calls are affected by the emotion and intensity of the game; you are officially working a game that is above your paygrade and it's time to demote yourself to the next lower level.