Otherwise, known as: Misogny--->bad, misandry--->good. Nothing changes.

And yeah, the women don't get it. It has to be blatant discrimination before they see it. They don't see the subtle stuff.

We went through this before.... waste of time then, waste of time now.

<i>"The sky is falling, the sky is falling..."</i> :rolleyes:

Thanks

U2-U1=U1 :D

Once again this goes to show that a thread title doesn't necessarily tell what the content is.

I'm somewhat in agreement with Rut on this one. Does it make me a bad person if I don't enjoy doing women's basketball? I don't think it does at all - it is just my preference.
Here we have to do double-headers and this being my second year here it got old fast. I was all set to stop doing high school ball next season when I find out I'm going to state. I kind of feel obligated to work high school next season. If I could do a JV boys game and then the boy's varsity I probably wouldn't feel this way, but it is a varsity double-header every time out. Add the fact that we probably make the same for this double-header as most of you make for one game; I don't do it only for the money, but I don't do it for free either.

Someone said it best, the women's game is harder to officiate than the men's games, but some of that doesn't really have anything to do with basketball plays. IMO it is harder because the girls force us to make more decisions. This is just my experience, but for some reason an attempt to play basketball defense is replaced by the notion that there is the ball I'm going to reach, grab and do whatever to get it. Like I said, that is just my experience.

I think I know who BNR is talking about and she does deserve to do boy's varsity - it seems like I know too many people in too many areas. I have no problem with a woman doing boy's varsity because sex doesn't really matter when it comes to skills. I don't really think anyone else said something different, but I'm just saying.

Best Post of the Thread!! IMO

This seems like a good thread to post this...

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Congratulations on making the postseason. Especially in only your second season. It took me 7 or 8 years to get a playoff game. (Of course, it took me 6 years to get any varsity games at all.)

Sorry to hear that your season is over. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that mine is too. Time to get those camp applications out!

I like your mindset of working hard in every game, start to finish, and watching as much local ball as you can. It always helps to see teams and plays before you have to actually officiate them.

I'm officiating in my second state now, and both of mine have always been V double-headers. In fact, back in Kansas, I sometimes had a triple-header of either B or G JV followed by GV then BV. Ugh.

At times I'm envious of those who have one game per night, but I also know I'm seeing twice the number of games I would in that situation and it's good for my development. I'm also seeing an equal number (approximately) of boys and girls games, and that is good from an exposure point of view. At this point I still enjoy working boys more, but if I didn't have work girls games I probably wouldn't, and I'd have missed some darn good games and the exposure that lets me know, for sure, that I want to focus on boys ball as I move up.

Where's rockyroad? He usually chimes in here with a very well worded opinion that girls' and womens' games AREN'T easier than boys' and mens'. They are two different games. Refs who do the highest levels of men's ball aren't automatically qualified to do girls' or womens' games, they are only the best at the men's game. A ref can be good at both, can be the best at both, but being great at one doesn't make him or her any particular skill level at the other.

Thus, it's not appropriate to think of working up through the levels of girls' games to the "highest pinnacle of achievement, boys' games". If you don't like girls' games, fine. Don't do them. But don't degrade them by acting like they're just "training ground".

JR, when the OP very clearly states (no implication or hinting here) that girls' games don't get the best refs, he's being misogynistic and patronizing. When I point that out, I'm not being misandryistic, just realistic. OP thinks girls' games are LESS, LOWER, SUB. That's degrading to girls and women, and doesn't speak well of OP as a man. Nothing I said puts "men" down.

I don't have a problem with lots and lots of men, but you seem to take any comments by me about some men personally. But then, as you say, nothing changes, does it?

I'll just say this, and then I'm done. The reason I post my disagreements with comments such as the OP made isn't to change anyone's mind. I gave up on that a long time ago. I do want lurkers, new readers and others who look at the forum irregularly to not think that opinions such as the OP are the only ones out there. There are refs out there who don't feel that girls games are automatically lower level, and some of us who have respect for the girls games do post on this board. It's not just one way of thinking.

Juulie, I disagree. I thought he was just being observant. I didn't sense any sort of value statement from him indicating he thought the system is appropriate. Is pointing out reality misogynistic?

I hate to break it to you, but that is true in many places. It is definitely true in my state and true in many organizations that I belong to. And many of the female officials that work basketball get opportunities on the girl's side that a male would never get on boy's side. And if that is misogynistic, then what happens if the reference is true? I have already given many examples of this.

Peace

By way of contrast, I wonder how much offense Juulie finds in this comment, which was actually said to me recently almost word for word by a recent college grad who's gender will remain unspecified:

I really want to work in men's fashion but for now I'm taking work in women's fashion for the experience and to get my name known. If I work hard and show my worth I'll eventually get a good job in my field.

No need. Leave that part to Rita:

Yeah, we're just so stupid. Can't see anything unless you hit us over the head with a 2-by-4. I find it amazing that she doesn't see the "subtle stuff" in that very comment, even though it's blatantly obvious.

BTW, why did you put the word "men" in quotation marks? :confused:

I'll second that opportunity bias for our association. It's simply a matter of numbers and I don't necessarily disagree. It looks "good" to have a female officiating varsity female games...the assignors recognize that and they get the fast track. I'm mostly fine with that. I get about an equal number of boys' and girls' game, a mix of JV and varsity. I enjoy the boys' game for sure, it's simply better flowing basketball: less out-of-bounds, tie-ups, violations, etc. However, I will not request boys' only (as some of the "big guns" in our assoc. have) since I enjoy the girls' game and know that they deserve the best effort from each official for each game (which I'm prepared to give). I'll just take what I'm assigned.