help with a Tech call from Refs NFHS rules
 

Help, I dont have the 2007-2008 NFHS rule book,

I was asked to be the assistant coach for a championship game,

The league rules are based on NFHS rules and a few league bylaws


We started the game with 3 league approved coaches, a head coach
3 officials worked the game, the coaching box wasin use


3 minutes into the game the other assistant was saying "how do we get a
charge" the official jogged by and called a T on the bench. 2 shots and possesion
were given to the other team the Assistant immediately stopped any talk other than
to the players.

A minute thirty later another of the officials came by and instructed the coach
to sit on the bench and could no longer use the box ( I can understand that one)
Then the ref told the assistant he was not a coach and told to leave the bench,
compliance was immediate and no argument was made. The Assistant went to the stands.

At the time out we asked to see the tournament director, since it was the finals.
We were told to wait until halftime. A halftime I was taked with lodging a Protest
over the removal of the assistant. The tournament director told us that we were only
allowed on assistant. We discussed the lack of such a rule in the Bylaws.

The Tournament director acknowledged the protest and at the third quarter break
asked the referees, to which they replied the assistant received the tech not the team
as we were told and was removed via the rules of one tech on an assistant and out?

An aside, during the third quarter the Head coach and assistant were switching back and forth
using the box, one was always seated, and it was not due to cheering or welcoming a player back.
When this was pointed out tournament director (now setting near our bench) and it stopped soon after.

Other info, the official score keeper had recored the tech but did not charge it to the team as a team
foul ( not that it mattered as the teams total was 4 at the end of the first half.)

There were no warnings given, no additional Techs, no Flagrants not a rough game At all


The Bylaws both local and state have been checked and no rule regarding the removal of an
assistant after one Tech charged are in the rules

Since I am not an official this year, only a coach I do not have the 07/08 rule changes
for NFHS. Could someone clarify this for me ?

Was an assistant coach removed after one T a mistake ?

After all the years I have officialed or coached I have neve heard of such.

Thanks in advance


The championship was decided by one point, other teams favor.



Thanks

Unless the technical foul was ruled flagrant, the assistant coach does not have to leave the bench after receiving a single T.

Flagrant ???
 

Under NFHS rules, if the assistant coach was charged with a flagrant technical foul, as an adult, I believe that he could have been ejected away from the court.

OK so no-one has heard of this one T and the assistant is out
 

OK so no-one has heard of this one Technical and the assistant is out

An Adult assistant (Military colonel even tempered ) complied with no arguments or discussion never could have been a flagrant.

Has anyone heard of the above situation happening ?

This was the most bizzarre Basketball situation I have seen
in 25 Years as a Player, Official, or Coach,

Reviewed the film and wonder if we should contact the
local officials association for a ruling.

Wisdom from refs ?

:confused:

Looks like we have an upset fanboy here. Don't feed the trolls.

Sorry Not a fanboy
 

Not upset other than the bizzare situation I found myself in
As coach, a ref and an educator I am trying to get an answer
regarding any possible changes in the rule book from my 06-07
copy. I was relocated to a new area and there are a lot of nuances

This was a bizzare situation so I am trying to seek educated
opinions or I would not have written a detailed description.


thanks for any help you can give

As far as the NFHS book goes, doesn't have to leave on one technical unless flagrant (as already stated). However, you stated your league has a few additional rules so it's possible it could be a league rule.

Thanks
 

Been through the bylaws and no mention of this

So did this discrepancy get straightened out? The director thought only one assistant was allowed, although you didn't see it in the written rules. Still, perhaps that played a part in the ruling?

I can't see that filing a protest will change anything. There's almost no league that will change the outcome of a game based on a protest filed by a losing team. And really, how much difference could it make to lose one assistant, if the head coach and the other assistant (you) would handle it correctly?

Dude, they screwed up. Get over it and move on.

You must have had a career full of vanilla games. This was "nothing".

Concur!

I did five youth league championship games today that unfortunately make this situation look like a walk in the park......Kids did great. Parents and coaches were all over the place. Too much pressure to win......I'm going to go take a nap now! ;)

Many thanks to all
 

Thanks for all your responses, I know the pressure with the family dynamics
and influences to win. I have never had to ask for work. The officials lack of
communication with the coaches. most T's require some thought as to the reason they are called, many are black and white. In this case I was
amazed as to the lack of warning and the mild "complaining" that resulted in a T to the bench, then the coach, I have seen the gamut of relatively bizzare games, calls, fans and fools. this was so mild !

I am being asked to consider taking the program, as a Head coach, I will be meeting with the league officials for dinner next week.

Thanks for your time, I was asking for a clarification, not a frying or a
lecture.

If any of you have coached and officiated, when the officials are unapproachable, (or the coaches arrogant) then it makes coaching
difficult. In storage, or misplaced, I have some guidelines for giving Technicals that was passed to me during training. The oficials I
respected most used these guidelines and were not afraid to reverse
a blown call.

Thanks again to all

Thanks
 

Thanks you are correct, The bylaws allow for the protest to be reviewed and
if a mistake was made, the "Second place Team could be allowed to move forward to the regional tournament without being seeded.

Thats the reason I posted for clarification.

BTW I miss Oregon

1. Your league needs to get rid of that "review of protest" rule. No way a rec league should be even listening to protests.

2. And can you seriously be saying that having your other assistant coach tossed merits an overturn of the outcome of the game?!?

3. You are way, way too legalistic about the rules. Reffing is much more about art and judgment than the letter of the law. Just because one ref was too touchy about some comments, and called a T that another ref wouldn't have, doesn't mean you got robbed. There's no such hard and fast rules out there.

Guidelines For Technicals ???
 

Technical Fouls

Top Reasons To Not Give A Technical Foul
• You can address a coach before it becomes a problem. A quiet word can go a long way in preventing a technical foul.
• When coaches complain, ask yourself, is the call questionable, is the call wrong. If they have a legitimate gripe, then allow them some latitude. Be courteous. Do not argue. Be firm and fair
• If you know a coach is upset then move away from him or her, even if it means that you and your partner are not switching or rotating properly.
• Warnings can be very effective in preventing situations from escalating. Don't tolerate a lot before a warning.
• Lend a resonable ear. Coaches like to be heard. If you ignore them then they become more frustrated and are more likely to lose control.
• If an assistant is out of line, then you can speak to the head coach and ask them to help you out.
• If a player is out of line then let the coach know. Tell them you've warned their player. That way if you do give a technical foul, then the coach isn't surprised. Most good coaches will speak to the player first.
• If you have had a rough day and know your fuse is short, keep that in mind before you do anything rash. Ask yourself, does the situation come under one of the top reasons to give a technical foul.
• If necessary, give an initial strong warning. Let your partner know about the warning.

Top Reasons To Give A Technical Foul
There are many different factors to consider when deciding to give a technical foul. Generally, there are three areas of coach's behavior that need attention: when a coach makes it personal, when a coach
draws attention to himself or herself, and when a coach's complaints are persistent. Some technical fouls are easy. They are black and white situations that leave little room for negotiation:
• Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar, or obscene.
• A coach questions your integrity.
• Inciting an undesirable crowd reaction.
• A coach is embarrassing an official.
• A coach or player has been warned and has not heeded the warning.
• Leaving the confines of the coaching box and complaining.
• A coach demonstrates displeasure with your partner and their back is turned.
Other technical fouls are not as black and white. In some situations, a warning may be appropriate before the technical foul is given:
• A coach or player continually demonstrates signals or asks for calls.
• If they have interfered with the game or your concentration, then they have usually gone too far.
• If giving a technical will help give structure back to the game and if it will have a calming effect on things.

Top Ways To Give A Technical Foul
• Calling a technical foul should be no different then calling any other foul. It is simply a rule that requires a penalty. Maintain a calm attitude, have poise and presence. Don’t personalize it. Don't embarrass the coach by being demonstrative.
• Take your time. Don’t over react. Always sound the whistle and stop the clock with a foul signal. Signal the technical foul. Take a deep breath to calm yourself. Proceed to the reporting area, report the technical foul clearly to the table, and leave the area. Never look at a coach when you give a technical foul.
• Confer with your partner. If the technical foul is charged to the head coach or bench personnel, have your partner inform the coach of the loss of the coaching box.
• Explanations, it needed should be done by partner. Always explain technical fouls on players to coaches.
• Proceed with the administration of the penalty. After technical fouls, put the ball in play immediately. Because a coach has been penalized with a technical foul does not mean that the coach is allowed rebuttal time.
• Make them earn the second technical foul. Don't be reluctant to give the second technical foul if it is warranted.
• Do not discuss a technical foul or an ejection of a player or coach beyond the confines of the gymnasium. Doing so is very unethical. The penalty is enough.

You were Miss Oregon! What year?

2007 ???
 

Miss Oregon 2007

http://www.missoregon.org/contents/media/missoa2.jpg

She reminds me of Sarah Cahlke, who plays Dr. Elliot Reid on "Scrubs".

http://www.kaputz.com/sarah_chalke/p...rah_chalke.jpg

Except they spelled Juulie's name wrong!

Good One ...
 

Good one. I bet Mark Padgett wished he had come up with that one.

I can say this, I know a lot of refs who would have made this call without warning. Assistant coaches are to coach. Rule 10 prohibits any attempt to influence an official's decision. Most officials give quite a bit of leeway to a head coach. Most also do not accept any crap from an assistant. Even further, a lot of officials have absolutely zero tolerance below the high school varsity level. Assistant coaches speak up at their own risk.
This was mild. BTW, it looks like the only part of the post that you needed clarification was whether or not an assistant coach should be tossed after just on technical foul. The answer is no, unless it was flagrant.
Question. How does being able to approach an official make coaching easier? Coach the kids, don't worry about coaching the refs.
I've readh these "guidelines" a hundred times, and it doesn't get any more authoritative. They're guidelines, and they work for some and not for others. They're definitely nothing to get all hung up over.
What call did they blow? Looks to me like they blew two things.
1. They shouldn't have ejected an assistant for 1 technical foul.
2. If they did eject that assistant, they should have ensured he left the gym rather than go to stands.

Curious, what level of ball is this that they call in someone to be an assistant in a championship game?

The girl who played Roseanne's oldest daughter for a while?

Thanks for the Sarcastic answers
 

Level: High School : Reason Head coach had a cardiac event
rationale: I worked practice all season and helped design the offensive sets
The Assistant (JV) coach has only two years and is primarily a Tennis specialist

To answer your questions, How does being able to approach an official make coaching easier?

The ability of a coach to calmly discuss a situation with an official (and have the official listen) , enables understanding that eventually gets modeled to the players who in turn will take this attitude forward. Fostering an untouchable persona will rarely showcase your talents as an officail

When it comes to knowing tournament directors, (yes they have a say) or helping decide who moves up to cover more coveted spots well respected coaches and ADs often are asked for direct imput on who should or should not work a tournament.

I am not sorry about posting here, I have gotten over it, now as I am asked to take the recently vacated HC position I can politic for a crew not to work our games.

Oh never made it to Miss Oregon got disqualified for having Balls
I know thats rare in some areas:rolleyes:

I don't worry about coaching the Refs, its when you are thrown into a
situation where a mostly substitute coaching staff must deal with what
a very bad situation.

As for the appeal, thats likely a waste, but the team received at at large bid so some things do work out. It is interesting as the tournament director will
in a gentlemans aggreement, not have two of the three referees in the
regional tournament.

To who posted the rules to giving a Technical, thanks ! the person who wrote them had great insight. Its nice to have a copy again

My years as an educator have proven over and over that the best interest
of the kids is the best policy, after all we are all someone's kid.

I understand you all may need a forum to vent, and maybe I ended in the
wrong place, accepted.

I wont let the door hit me in the on the way but I will stop in from time to time

If you're still around, please tell me what parts of my post came across as sarcastic. I'm curious, as all my questions were serious ones.

As for my coaching the refs comment, that comes from a little bit of experience. Some coaches want clarification, and others want to try to "work" me for a call down the road. I was looking for clarification of what you meant, since both groups tend to get upset when the refs aren't "approachable."

FWIW, an assistant coach making a snyde comment such as "how do we get a charge" is not the kind of thing that will foster good communication between the officials and the coaches. Would I give a warning for this? Most likely. Is a warning required? No.

You're making a huge assumption here. Most times I am not approached or asked a question a respectful or calm manner. Most times coaches expect to be shown a level of deference and respect that they themselves don't afford to officials.