What would you have done?

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

I'm not giving them an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize, rather I'm simply giving them a chance to retrieve the ball if they're making an effort to get to it. If they're making an attempt to simply get back and put the ball in play, how is that abusing the rule?

Here's a situation for you: Team A has the ball in their front court and is passing it around. B1 gets a good read on a pass from A1 to A2, and makes a steal while the ball is in mid-air. B1 goes the length of the court and makes an uncontested layup. After the ball goes through the hoop, the ball either bounces and remains directly under the basket, or B1 prevents the ball from bouncing away and places the ball on the floor under the basket. A member from team A is racing back to make the throw in, but let's say it takes them 3 seconds to get to the ball and pick it up, and another second or so to get completely OOB to make the throw in. By your statements, your 5 second count would already be at 4 at this point? Please tell me that's not the case...

[Nevadaref]

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

This isn't what you said earlier. You said your count starts when the ball is available, and had nothing to do with your position relative to the end line. Just because you got down there quickly does not necessarily mean the other team can, too. As the trail/new-lead, we are already closer to the mid-court area than the team that had the ball stolen. As an official, we must keep up with the player that stole the ball to get the best possible view in case a violation occurs, so naturally we are closer to the end line than any player from the new throw-in team.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the what it means for the ball to be at the disposal of a player/team, because I totally disagree with you on this. You're penalizing the new throw-in team for making a concerted effort to put the ball back in play in a timely fashion, which is nothing less than what they're supposed to do, and that goes against the principles we're supposed to adhere to as officials. There's no abuse of the rules here at all.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

This isn't what you said earlier. You said your count starts when the ball is available, and had nothing to do with your position relative to the end line. Just because you got down there quickly does not necessarily mean the other team can, too. As the trail/new-lead, we are already closer to the mid-court area than the team that had the ball stolen. As an official, we must keep up with the player that stole the ball to get the best possible view in case a violation occurs, so naturally we are closer to the end line than any player from the new throw-in team.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the what it means for the ball to be at the disposal of a player/team, because I totally disagree with you on this. You're penalizing the new throw-in team for making a concerted effort to put the ball back in play in a timely fashion, which is nothing less than what they're supposed to do, and that goes against the principles we're supposed to adhere to as officials. There's no abuse of the rules here at all.

1. You either don't know what the rule is or you don't like it and elect to enforce it your own way.

2. As Trail I don't hang back near the division line. If you do, then you are out of position.

3. You missed my point about an official being able to run down the court quickly to be in position. I wasn't stating that instead of the disposal rule. I was refuting your statement that a team needs 3 seconds to get back there. Most 17 year-old players are faster than most officials. If an official can keep up with the scoring player, then so can a player from the defending team. By the time the ball passes through the basket and hits the floor, I'm at the end line in 99% of the cases. I'm certainly not giving the nonscoring team 2-3 extra seconds to cover the distance of half the court and inbound the ball. That's not necessary or correct BY RULE.

4. As I wrote before officials like you are the very reason that the NCAA adopted the stopping of the clock in the final minute. Teams were being allowed to unfairly run out the clock.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. You either don't know what the rule is or you don't like it and elect to enforce it your own way.

2. As Trail I don't hang back near the division line. If you do, then you are out of position.

3. You missed my point about an official being able to run down the court quickly to be in position. I wasn't stating that instead of the disposal rule. I was refuting your statement that a team needs 3 seconds to get back there. Most 17 year-old players are faster than most officials. If an official can keep up with the scoring player, then so can a player from the defending team. By the time the ball passes through the basket and hits the floor, I'm at the end line in 99% of the cases. I'm certainly not giving the nonscoring team 2-3 extra seconds to cover the distance of half the court and inbound the ball. That's not necessary or correct BY RULE.

4. As I wrote before officials like you are the very reason that the NCAA adopted the stopping of the clock in the final minute. Teams were being allowed to unfairly run out the clock.

1. I know what the rule is. We start our count when the ball is at the disposal of the team, and our disagreement comes as to how we define disposal. Unless I'm mistaken, NFHS rules do not spell out what disposal means, and that leaves it up to us officials to make our own interpretation. If I'm wrong, then please cite the rule # where this is defined.

2. I did not say that as the T we hang back near the division line. I merely said that we're closer to it than most players.

3. By rule, I think we're talking about the definition of "disposal" again.

4. "Officials like me"...well it's nice to know Ive got some influence at the collegiate level.