What would you have done?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

He better watch it or I'll pull out his last remaining hair. Yes, the very last one.

Pull this.

(that any better JR?)

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

This isn't what you said earlier. You said your count starts when the ball is available, and had nothing to do with your position relative to the end line. Just because you got down there quickly does not necessarily mean the other team can, too. As the trail/new-lead, we are already closer to the mid-court area than the team that had the ball stolen. As an official, we must keep up with the player that stole the ball to get the best possible view in case a violation occurs, so naturally we are closer to the end line than any player from the new throw-in team.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the what it means for the ball to be at the disposal of a player/team, because I totally disagree with you on this. You're penalizing the new throw-in team for making a concerted effort to put the ball back in play in a timely fashion, which is nothing less than what they're supposed to do, and that goes against the principles we're supposed to adhere to as officials. There's no abuse of the rules here at all.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Don't bother me now, I'm trying to prove that 54-23 does not equal 20 regardless of where the calculation is made.

I need it for a paper I'm presenting at MIT in a couple of weeks.

For all of the Ph.D's that are short a case of diet coke?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

For all of the Ph.D's that are short a case of diet coke?

I heard a Ph.D. from MIT can drink a 45 minute coke in 30 minutes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

This isn't what you said earlier. You said your count starts when the ball is available, and had nothing to do with your position relative to the end line. Just because you got down there quickly does not necessarily mean the other team can, too. As the trail/new-lead, we are already closer to the mid-court area than the team that had the ball stolen. As an official, we must keep up with the player that stole the ball to get the best possible view in case a violation occurs, so naturally we are closer to the end line than any player from the new throw-in team.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the what it means for the ball to be at the disposal of a player/team, because I totally disagree with you on this. You're penalizing the new throw-in team for making a concerted effort to put the ball back in play in a timely fashion, which is nothing less than what they're supposed to do, and that goes against the principles we're supposed to adhere to as officials. There's no abuse of the rules here at all.

1. You either don't know what the rule is or you don't like it and elect to enforce it your own way.

2. As Trail I don't hang back near the division line. If you do, then you are out of position.

3. You missed my point about an official being able to run down the court quickly to be in position. I wasn't stating that instead of the disposal rule. I was refuting your statement that a team needs 3 seconds to get back there. Most 17 year-old players are faster than most officials. If an official can keep up with the scoring player, then so can a player from the defending team. By the time the ball passes through the basket and hits the floor, I'm at the end line in 99% of the cases. I'm certainly not giving the nonscoring team 2-3 extra seconds to cover the distance of half the court and inbound the ball. That's not necessary or correct BY RULE.

4. As I wrote before officials like you are the very reason that the NCAA adopted the stopping of the clock in the final minute. Teams were being allowed to unfairly run out the clock.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Pull this.

(that any better JR?)

What no accompanying picture?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What no accompanying picture?

No! No picture for you today!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Don't bother me now, I'm trying to prove that 54-23 does not equal 20 regardless of where the calculation is made.

I need it for a paper I'm presenting at MIT in a couple of weeks.

Try it in base 1.876. I think that might work out...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What no accompanying picture?

If you insist.....

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. You either don't know what the rule is or you don't like it and elect to enforce it your own way.

2. As Trail I don't hang back near the division line. If you do, then you are out of position.

3. You missed my point about an official being able to run down the court quickly to be in position. I wasn't stating that instead of the disposal rule. I was refuting your statement that a team needs 3 seconds to get back there. Most 17 year-old players are faster than most officials. If an official can keep up with the scoring player, then so can a player from the defending team. By the time the ball passes through the basket and hits the floor, I'm at the end line in 99% of the cases. I'm certainly not giving the nonscoring team 2-3 extra seconds to cover the distance of half the court and inbound the ball. That's not necessary or correct BY RULE.

4. As I wrote before officials like you are the very reason that the NCAA adopted the stopping of the clock in the final minute. Teams were being allowed to unfairly run out the clock.

1. I know what the rule is. We start our count when the ball is at the disposal of the team, and our disagreement comes as to how we define disposal. Unless I'm mistaken, NFHS rules do not spell out what disposal means, and that leaves it up to us officials to make our own interpretation. If I'm wrong, then please cite the rule # where this is defined.

2. I did not say that as the T we hang back near the division line. I merely said that we're closer to it than most players.

3. By rule, I think we're talking about the definition of "disposal" again.

4. "Officials like me"...well it's nice to know Ive got some influence at the collegiate level.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you insist.....

Subtle. I like it.

(he's certainly working hard to earn it this thread aint he... )

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

SITUATION 9: With less than one minute to play in the fourth quarter, Team A scores a field goal to tie the game. B1, standing under the basket after the score, secures the ball and begins heading to the end line for the ensuing throw-in. A1 requests and is granted a time-out. RULING: Legal procedure. Team A may request and be granted a time-out until the ensuing throw-in begins. The throw-in does not begin until B1 has the ball at his/her disposal and the official has begun the five-second count.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

Huh? The interp makes it very clear that even though the ball is available to the throwing team immediately after the made basket, it is not at their disposal even after B1 has "secure[d] the ball and [is] heading to the end line." Otherwise the time out would not be allowed.

So if, by official interpretation, the ball isn't at B's disposal even after B1 has "secure[d] the ball and [is] heading to the end line," why would the official have a count? This interp contradicts the point you seem to be making. Ergo, "if the ball is on the floor directly under the basket," the requirement has not, in fact, been met.

[TonyT]

Team A was out of time outs and made a basket with 5.2 seconds left to trail by 2 points. A player on team A hit the ball when it went thru the basket it went high in the air and hit off the back wall. One of the refs blew his whistle and stopped play with 2.2 seconds left(the game is basically over because team B doesn't even have to throw the ball in play as time is going to run out) ( I think a delay of game technical should of been called or just let the clock run out) Now the fun begins because when team B throws the ball in play after the clock was stopped and threw it away on the sideline with no one touching the ball. Now team A gets the ball under their own basket with 2.2 seconds to go with a chance to tie or win the game. Team A throws the ball in and gets off a 3 point shot that misses and Team B escapes. If that 3 point shot had of went in I bet World War 3 would of started.