What would you have done?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not sure where you're going with this.

The allotted 5 seconds does not begin when the ball falls through the basket.

What B did was within the rules. Game over, go home.

I agree Dan. I'm just saying that as arbiters of The Game (note the capital T and capital G) we have to ensure fairness. We need to be mindful of a team trying to purposely delay for MORE THAN they are allotted. If that wasn't the case here, then game over. No problem. However, we should certainly be on the look-out for it.
Personally, I check the clock when the ball goes through and am looking for a time-out from the trailing team, but in this case they didn't have one, so that wasn't as important.
I also check the clock AGAIN as I start my 5-second count. That way if there is a violation, I know how much time to put back up or if the inbounding team can legally run it all the way out. Perhaps that is my best bit of advice for the OP.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Nevada,

Well, we want to be fair to both teams, don't we? If B1 had caught A2's toss, he would have just stood there and let time run out. Instead, he threw his hands wide and let the ball just lie there. All of this play was under 5 seconds. My real question is would have called a tech or just let clock run out.

An additional question is what would have said to the evaluator?

B1 is under no obligation to catch the ball. As long as the administering official is counting, then I have no problem with what took place. The ball is certainly at the disposal of a player from the throwing team. A2 ensured that. I also have no issue with the action of A2. He was NOT delaying the throw-in, rather he was attempting to speed it up.
Sounds like this was a good play by both players.

I would tell the evaluator that the count was started as soon as the ball was at the disposal and that the clock ran out before a 5-second violation occurred. I would NOT stop the clock to retrieve the ball. That would provide the defending team an unfair advantage. If the throwing team didn't wish to go get it, that's fine, but I would darn sure be counting and would definitely penalize them IF the violation occurred prior to time expiring.

Sounds like you did well to me.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not sure where you're going with this.

The allotted 5 seconds does not begin when the ball falls through the basket.

What B did was within the rules. Game over, go home.

Agree...

I have one girl assigned for all throw ins. And she is normally Ft line/ top of the key area..takes her 1-2 seconds to get down there and get the ball anyways...

[Junker]

I would have nodded my head and acknowledged that the evaluator was right, then if the situation came up in a game again, I'd do the same thing and let the clock run out.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Agree...

I have one girl assigned for all throw ins. And she is normally Ft line/ top of the key area..takes her 1-2 seconds to get down there and get the ball anyways...

A very good point. The player nearest the ball after a made basket does not necessarily always throw in the ball, nor are they required to by rule. After a basket, they may take off down the court to get ready to set up for a specific play. If I see somebody making an effort to get to the ball, I'll hold hold my 5 count until they get to the ball. But if nobody is coming to get it, or a player is walking lazily to get in place for the throw in, I'll start my visible count. Generally when coaches see me doing the 5 count, they'll scream at their player to hurry up and get the ball in play. I've never had a problem with a coach telling me I've not given their team a reasonable amount of time to put the ball in play.

In the original situation, the game could very well end after a made basket, even with 6.0 or 6.5+ on the clock, because of this fact. Team B does not have to hurry and run full strength to get back and put the ball in play, but they do have to make a reasonable effort, which realistically could take 1-2+ seconds as mentioned above, and therefore could run the clock out without them ever inbounding the ball. If this were really that big of an issue, then NFHS should adopt the NCAA rule and stop the clock after a made basket with under 1 minute to play in the game.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

B1 is under no obligation to catch the ball. As long as the administering official is counting, then I have no problem with what took place. The ball is certainly at the disposal of a player from the throwing team. A2 ensured that.

What if B1 was standing at the FT line? do you then consider him to have the ball at his disposal for the throw-in?

I don't.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What if B1 was standing at the FT line? do you then consider him to have the ball at his disposal for the throw-in?

I don't.

Did I say that I did, Dan? So stop adding little twists to the plays and then providing your sanctimonious answers to questions which no one asked.

The NFHS gave us quality guidance on this in a recent Interp. That's what I follow.

SITUATION 9: With less than one minute to play in the fourth quarter, Team A scores a field goal to tie the game. B1, standing under the basket after the score, secures the ball and begins heading to the end line for the ensuing throw-in. A1 requests and is granted a time-out. RULING: Legal procedure. Team A may request and be granted a time-out until the ensuing throw-in begins. The throw-in does not begin until B1 has the ball at his/her disposal and the official has begun the five-second count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Junker

I would have nodded my head and acknowledged that the evaluator was right, then if the situation came up in a game again, I'd do the same thing and let the clock run out.

That may be practical and politically wise, but it's still spineless.

Originally Posted by ma_ref

In the original situation, the game could very well end after a made basket, even with 6.0 or 6.5+ on the clock, because of this fact. Team B does not have to hurry and run full strength to get back and put the ball in play, but they do have to make a reasonable effort, which realistically could take 1-2+ seconds as mentioned above, and therefore could run the clock out without them ever inbounding the ball. If this were really that big of an issue, then NFHS should adopt the NCAA rule and stop the clock after a made basket with under 1 minute to play in the game.

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So stop adding little twists to the plays and then providing your sanctimonious answers to questions which no one asked.

Hmmmmmm...this should be interesting.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

I'm not giving them an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize, rather I'm simply giving them a chance to retrieve the ball if they're making an effort to get to it. If they're making an attempt to simply get back and put the ball in play, how is that abusing the rule?

Here's a situation for you: Team A has the ball in their front court and is passing it around. B1 gets a good read on a pass from A1 to A2, and makes a steal while the ball is in mid-air. B1 goes the length of the court and makes an uncontested layup. After the ball goes through the hoop, the ball either bounces and remains directly under the basket, or B1 prevents the ball from bouncing away and places the ball on the floor under the basket. A member from team A is racing back to make the throw in, but let's say it takes them 3 seconds to get to the ball and pick it up, and another second or so to get completely OOB to make the throw in. By your statements, your 5 second count would already be at 4 at this point? Please tell me that's not the case...

[Nevadaref]

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Did I say that I did, Dan? So stop adding little twists to the plays and then providing your sanctimonious answers to questions which no one asked.

Are you so uncomfortable with your rules knowledge that you can't handle "little twists" on plays without going Hillary on us?

Someone check Nevada's diaper, he's a little pissy today.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Are you so uncomfortable with your rules knowledge that you can't handle "little twists" on plays without going Hillary on us?

Someone check Nevada's diaper, he's a little pissy today.

Hmmmmmm.......barely adequate, if that, imo.

Personally, I'd have told him that I'd rip off his head and then crap down his neck.

But that's just me.......

[Nevadaref]

He better watch it or I'll pull out his last remaining hair. Yes, the very last one.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hmmmmmm.......barely adequate, if that, imo.

Personally, I'd have told him that I'd rip off his head and then crap down his neck.

But that's just me.......

Don't bother me now, I'm trying to prove that 54-23 does not equal 20 regardless of where the calculation is made.

I need it for a paper I'm presenting at MIT in a couple of weeks.