What would you have done?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ronny,
You have to be fair to the scoring team. You cannot allow the throwing team to run the clock out by just standing there for MORE than the allotted five seconds. In a situation such as this it is imperative that the covering official check the clock and begin the 5-second throw-in count as soon as the ball is at the disposal of the throwing team.

Not sure where you're going with this.

The allotted 5 seconds does not begin when the ball falls through the basket.

What B did was within the rules. Game over, go home.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not sure where you're going with this.

The allotted 5 seconds does not begin when the ball falls through the basket.

What B did was within the rules. Game over, go home.

I agree Dan. I'm just saying that as arbiters of The Game (note the capital T and capital G) we have to ensure fairness. We need to be mindful of a team trying to purposely delay for MORE THAN they are allotted. If that wasn't the case here, then game over. No problem. However, we should certainly be on the look-out for it.
Personally, I check the clock when the ball goes through and am looking for a time-out from the trailing team, but in this case they didn't have one, so that wasn't as important.
I also check the clock AGAIN as I start my 5-second count. That way if there is a violation, I know how much time to put back up or if the inbounding team can legally run it all the way out. Perhaps that is my best bit of advice for the OP.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Not sure where you're going with this.

The allotted 5 seconds does not begin when the ball falls through the basket.

What B did was within the rules. Game over, go home.

Agree...

I have one girl assigned for all throw ins. And she is normally Ft line/ top of the key area..takes her 1-2 seconds to get down there and get the ball anyways...

[Junker]

I would have nodded my head and acknowledged that the evaluator was right, then if the situation came up in a game again, I'd do the same thing and let the clock run out.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Agree...

I have one girl assigned for all throw ins. And she is normally Ft line/ top of the key area..takes her 1-2 seconds to get down there and get the ball anyways...

A very good point. The player nearest the ball after a made basket does not necessarily always throw in the ball, nor are they required to by rule. After a basket, they may take off down the court to get ready to set up for a specific play. If I see somebody making an effort to get to the ball, I'll hold hold my 5 count until they get to the ball. But if nobody is coming to get it, or a player is walking lazily to get in place for the throw in, I'll start my visible count. Generally when coaches see me doing the 5 count, they'll scream at their player to hurry up and get the ball in play. I've never had a problem with a coach telling me I've not given their team a reasonable amount of time to put the ball in play.

In the original situation, the game could very well end after a made basket, even with 6.0 or 6.5+ on the clock, because of this fact. Team B does not have to hurry and run full strength to get back and put the ball in play, but they do have to make a reasonable effort, which realistically could take 1-2+ seconds as mentioned above, and therefore could run the clock out without them ever inbounding the ball. If this were really that big of an issue, then NFHS should adopt the NCAA rule and stop the clock after a made basket with under 1 minute to play in the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Junker

I would have nodded my head and acknowledged that the evaluator was right, then if the situation came up in a game again, I'd do the same thing and let the clock run out.

That may be practical and politically wise, but it's still spineless.

Originally Posted by ma_ref

In the original situation, the game could very well end after a made basket, even with 6.0 or 6.5+ on the clock, because of this fact. Team B does not have to hurry and run full strength to get back and put the ball in play, but they do have to make a reasonable effort, which realistically could take 1-2+ seconds as mentioned above, and therefore could run the clock out without them ever inbounding the ball. If this were really that big of an issue, then NFHS should adopt the NCAA rule and stop the clock after a made basket with under 1 minute to play in the game.

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The reason that the NCAA adopted the clock stopping rule is precisely because officials such as yourself were failing to properly begin the 5 second count and teams were abusing the situation. Why are you giving the inbounding team an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize for the throw-in. The rule says to start the count when the ball is available to any member of the throwing team. If the ball is on the floor directly under the basket, then that requirement has been met.

I'm not giving them an extra 1-2+ seconds to organize, rather I'm simply giving them a chance to retrieve the ball if they're making an effort to get to it. If they're making an attempt to simply get back and put the ball in play, how is that abusing the rule?

Here's a situation for you: Team A has the ball in their front court and is passing it around. B1 gets a good read on a pass from A1 to A2, and makes a steal while the ball is in mid-air. B1 goes the length of the court and makes an uncontested layup. After the ball goes through the hoop, the ball either bounces and remains directly under the basket, or B1 prevents the ball from bouncing away and places the ball on the floor under the basket. A member from team A is racing back to make the throw in, but let's say it takes them 3 seconds to get to the ball and pick it up, and another second or so to get completely OOB to make the throw in. By your statements, your 5 second count would already be at 4 at this point? Please tell me that's not the case...

[Nevadaref]

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As the new Trail my count would start when I got down to the end line. If I can get down there, then so can the nonscoring team. It's not my fault that they were caught out of position. The ball is there and clearly at their disposal. Yes, I'm counting.

This isn't what you said earlier. You said your count starts when the ball is available, and had nothing to do with your position relative to the end line. Just because you got down there quickly does not necessarily mean the other team can, too. As the trail/new-lead, we are already closer to the mid-court area than the team that had the ball stolen. As an official, we must keep up with the player that stole the ball to get the best possible view in case a violation occurs, so naturally we are closer to the end line than any player from the new throw-in team.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the what it means for the ball to be at the disposal of a player/team, because I totally disagree with you on this. You're penalizing the new throw-in team for making a concerted effort to put the ball back in play in a timely fashion, which is nothing less than what they're supposed to do, and that goes against the principles we're supposed to adhere to as officials. There's no abuse of the rules here at all.