Big Sky Suspends 3 Men's Officials

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I said that because what you and another poster said may be true, but my TV is on college basketball a lot and...

But Jamie Luckie is on doing the WV/Pitt game and he is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I tried to find a picture of Jamie, no luck, but I'll assume he's black. I found his schedule.From his schedule I can only assume he's good and I'm not worthy to carry his bag into his schedule.

It seems to me that we're talking about 2 different things here. My statement is people get hired for a variety of reasons. I stand by my statement. I know it to be true.

My internet gut is you want to pigeonhole me into the argument " that all black refs got hired because of their race."

I never said that, I don't believe that. Now I could be wrong about my internet gut but I don't know cause you haven't really said what your issue is with what I said.

I'm starting to feel like a dog chasing his own tail..

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I tried to find a picture of Jamie, no luck, but I'll assume he's black. I found his schedule.From his schedule I can only assume he's good and I'm not worthy to carry his bag into his schedule.

It seems to me that we're talking about 2 different things here. My statement is people get hired for a variety of reasons. I stand by my statement. I know it to be true.

My internet gut is you want to pigeonhole me into the argument " that all black refs got hired because of their race."

I never said that, I don't believe that. Now I could be wrong about my internet gut but I don't know cause you haven't really said what your issue is with what I said.

I'm starting to feel like a dog chasing his own tail..

My interpretation:

Tomegun didn't want this thread to head on the down-ward spiral that usually occurs when race (like gender) is brought up in this forum.

Me, I believe race sometimes plays a subtle role in the decision-making process. (notice I'm not saying in favor or against any particular race; and notice I said "sometimes") But everyone has their own perceptions and no one's mind is going to be changed arguing back-and-forth in this forum. The history of locked threads will prove me right on that point.

BTW, Jamie Luckie is White...but he has many Black friends.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Brad

That's correct, but doesn't seem to agree with what you wrote earlier...

I'll clarify.

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I just don't think that the rule book will allow you to go back and penalize a excessive T/O request made before the final horn, after the horn went off, either with/without a whistle after the horn.

You can't go back and penalize an excessive T/O request that was made before the horn went off, after the horn goes off ,if you either blew your whistle after the horn or never blew it @ all. In order to get the excessive T/O "T" the whistle would've had to be sounded before triple 0's on the clock in order to assess the penalty and add time.

M&M seemed to say that as long as you heard the request and "mentally" granted it before the horn, that you could go back after the horn and penalize the excessive T/O with a "T" even though you might not have sounded your whistle @ all. He seemed to assert that as soon as you "mentally" granted the T/O that the ball was dead. I disagreed, thus the reason for the above quoted post.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Brad

Oh ... and I did read the OP, but if you think I read all 6 pages of what followed you would be wrong

6 pages...too much..I agree. However if you would've had the time to read the novel then the context of the in question post would've been some what clearer.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My interpretation:

Tomegun didn't want this thread to head on the down-ward spiral that usually occurs when race (like gender) is brought up in this forum.

Me, I believe race sometimes plays a subtle role in the decision-making process. (notice I'm not saying in favor or against any particular race; and notice I said "sometimes") But everyone has their own perceptions and no one's mind is going to be changed arguing back-and-forth in this forum. The history of locked threads will prove me right on that point.

BTW, Jamie Luckie is White...but he has many Black friends.

Sounds good to me. Though I'm even more confused by the Jamie comment. It could be that I'm just confused.

Race was only 1 of 6 reasons that I mentioned.

Oh well there is the Girls Ball versus Boys ball thread going on.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Race was only 1 of 6 reasons that I mentioned.

I sat with a fellow high school official at a state quarterfinal game a few nights ago. He is also a NCAA Womens Division III official. He told me that he has been told by the higher ups in his association that he cannot expect to move up as quickly as female officials in his association.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I sat with a fellow high school official at a state quarterfinal game a few nights ago. He is also a NCAA Womens Division III official. He told me that he has been told by the higher ups in his association that he cannot expect to move up as quickly as female officials in his association.

This comes as no surprise. I've seen some really strange rankings in NCAA regional polls and the disparity seems to be that the womens' teams coached by men sometimes get ranked poorly. Site selections (based on those rankings) for regional tournaments are surprising too.

[Mendy Trent]

Originally Posted by Forksref

This comes as no surprise. I've seen some really strange rankings in NCAA regional polls and the disparity seems to be that the womens' teams coached by men sometimes get ranked poorly. Site selections (based on those rankings) for regional tournaments are surprising too.

Now let me get this straight. You are saying that those who vote for team rankings in NCAA-W are factoring in whether or not the coach of the team is male or female? Do I have that right? Are you serious?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Sounds good to me. Though I'm even more confused by the Jamie comment. It could be that I'm just confused.

Race was only 1 of 6 reasons that I mentioned.

Oh well there is the Girls Ball versus Boys ball thread going on.

OK, I will explain myself. I have heard the notion that black guys are needed and get hired. However, there are relatively few black guys doing the TV game - I'm talking about comparing them to other officials. Even when you talk about those black guys - Hightower, Valentine, Green - they have been doing this for a long time so where are all those black officials who supposedly got hired because they are black? I believe in a perfect world guys should get hired based on skill - my world is perfect. To be fair and accurate I must also mention that while all this was going on the NBA and college basketball was being flooded by John Guthrie clones which are not these black officials - I can pick someone out who went to Guthrie's camps just from watching them run.

I mentioned Jamie because I know him (he is one of my references), I think he is one of the best officials in college and...he was on TV at the time I posted.

For me this shouldn't be about race; I'm a black official, but if someone can officiate I will give them credit no matter what color. I have a lot of white friends - I say that as a joke!

[Brad]

OK - that's about enough on this topic.