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-   -   What's your call - player entering without being beckoned? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42229-whats-your-call-player-entering-without-being-beckoned.html)

ca_rumperee Mon Feb 25, 2008 09:26pm
This is a substitute technical.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmz17
Saw this Saturday at a HS Varsity playoff game. Team A has the inbound on Team B's baseline. Referee is preparing to hand ball to A1 for the inbound. As Referee is handing ball to A1, Coach B decides to substitute and sends B6 up the sideline (Team B bench is on sideline on opposite end from throwin) to report. A1 inbounds the ball and the ball is in play when B6 just runs onto the court without being beckoned and with no horn from the table. B6 never really maade it to the table, but enters the court before midcourt. What is the proper call under NFHS rules?
Two free-throws and the ball at the division line for throw in.
No indirect on the coach, but counts toward team fouls and player fouls.

Stat-Man Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Yep, this is why you should wait until the player(s) reaches that X that is in front of the scorers table.

During the conference with player(s) coach(s) and table personnel, as a game managment tool one should inform them that NO SUBS will be allowed unless they are on the THE X SPOT.

Officials have totally disregarded the X on the floor.
Good luck finding that in must low-level games. Although I make it point to bring tape with me and put one down each home game if necessary. :D Of course, visiting teams seem to think the X means "stay as far away possible from this spot if you want to check in", even with gentle reminders :p

Rich Tue Feb 26, 2008 01:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Correct, don't anticipate sub(s) keep the game moving.
I'm just the opposite. If I have a sub even approaching the table, I'll hold for a second or give a whistle beckoning. What is the damned hurry, anyway?

And no, nobody abuses this, it happens once in a while. I'd rather err in this direction than potentially miss one that has gotten to the X.

just another ref Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:06am
This is something I include in the pregame conference every night:

"Coaches, to get in the game, your subs must report to the X. We will work with you if we see your player on his way, but even if you obviously have our attention, he must still touch the X and wait to be beckoned. The horn is not a green light."

Having said all this, this is a call that many officials here simply will not make. I have seen some do everything but tackle the player at the free throw line and drag him back to the X.

dkmz17 Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
It seems you're suggesting we put the ball in play as soon as one team is ready to go. Do you also suggest we place the ball on the floor the moment the defense is ready but the offense is not? One doesn't make sense without the other.

Just because one team happens to be in a position to resume play doesn't mean the other team will be or could/should be. One of the players may be OOB from a failed effort to save an errant pass. Each team shoud have a very reasonable chance to get all players in desired positions. The advantage awarded the throwing team is merely a throwin...not a throwin without the other team being ready to defend it. Giving a teams an advantage on a throwin by being "quick" to get the ball in play is not something we should be doing....it will only lead to frustration (and probably a few T's) and a short career...there is no good that can come of it. We should be managing a game and ensuring "fair" opportunities to both teams.
I am not saying that we should punish one team just because another team is ready to go. That said, I don't think we should allow a team "extra" time to set up their defense or make adjustments when all five for both teams have been on the floor for enough time that they could and should be ready to play.

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
I'm just the opposite. If I have a sub even approaching the table, I'll hold for a second or give a whistle beckoning. What is the damned hurry, anyway?

And no, nobody abuses this, it happens once in a while. I'd rather err in this direction than potentially miss one that has gotten to the X.
Agreed, but I'll only do this once or twice a game. Once it starts to be a problem, I quit doing it. It only takes one missed sub for them to get in gear.

Most of the time, the coach doesn't care anyway, or he realizes as he's sending the sub that it'll probably have to wait.

Rich Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Agreed, but I'll only do this once or twice a game. Once it starts to be a problem, I quit doing it. It only takes one missed sub for them to get in gear.

Most of the time, the coach doesn't care anyway, or he realizes as he's sending the sub that it'll probably have to wait.
I've run into scorers who hate that I'll whistle/beckon the sub in before he "reports" (who've actually called me over about it) but I really don't care about that. I've told scorers that when I whistle, they're in. End of story.

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
I've run into scorers who hate that I'll whistle/beckon the sub in before he "reports" (who've actually called me over about it) but I really don't care about that. I've told scorers that when I whistle, they're in. End of story.
Had a scorer try to tell me once that I needed to call a T on a player whom I had beckoned in; because he hadn't "reported" to the table.
"I told him to come in."
"You need to make him report to me first."

It was early in my officiating career, so I just walked away. Now, I would make sure the scorer knew, in no uncertain terms, what the rule says.

JugglingReferee Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkmz17
Saw this Saturday at a HS Varsity playoff game. Team A has the inbound on Team B's baseline. Referee is preparing to hand ball to A1 for the inbound. As Referee is handing ball to A1, Coach B decides to substitute and sends B6 up the sideline (Team B bench is on sideline on opposite end from throwin) to report. A1 inbounds the ball and the ball is in play when B6 just runs onto the court without being beckoned and with no horn from the table. B6 never really maade it to the table, but enters the court before midcourt. What is the proper call under NFHS rules?
Technical foul. That was easy.

BktBallRef Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Had a scorer try to tell me once that I needed to call a T on a player whom I had beckoned in; because he hadn't "reported" to the table.
"I told him to come in."
"You need to make him report to me first."

It was early in my officiating career, so I just walked away. Now, I would make sure the scorer knew, in no uncertain terms, what the rule says.
Doesn't the rule say, "A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number"? :rolleyes:

truerookie Tue Feb 26, 2008 04:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Had a scorer try to tell me once that I needed to call a T on a player whom I had beckoned in; because he hadn't "reported" to the table.
"I told him to come in."
"You need to make him report to me first."

It was early in my officiating career, so I just walked away. Now, I would make sure the scorer knew, in no uncertain terms, what the rule says.
Isn't the scorer a part of your officiating crew?

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 04:24pm
This was back before the "X" was required, and I considered a player to have reported if he went near the scorers I could see they were aware of his entry.
And this particular player had made it to the table, I just waved him in before he had a chance to say anything to the table.

You're right, I circumvented the "giving his/her number" portion of the rule.


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