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-   -   Wreck ball... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/42215-wreck-ball.html)

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.
I disagree with that. There are a lot of experiences many people do not want to face or deal with. Officiating is not always fun at all levels. And working wreck ball is not always fun or helpful. Not because I say so, because you might not see actual offenses or defenses run. Usually you get the "4-star" offense. Four guys standing around the 3 point line and one guy that think they are Shaq trying to post up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.
I tried it and I did not like it. It did not help me get better and I worked with many partners that did not even do HS games or any other HS ball, so I could not work on any mechanics and the guys I worked with did not know the rules. Not sure that has anything to do with being elitist, it has more to do with sharing my experience that it did not help. Ultimately an individual has to decide what they want to do. Some people have to figure it out for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.
This is another thing I do not agree with. Because the atmosphere is totally different and the things you might allow a man to say to you, you should never allow a child to say to you. And many officials do not make distinctions between the levels.

Peace

blindzebra Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I disagree with that. There are a lot of experiences many people do not want to face or deal with. Officiating is not always fun at all levels. And working wreck ball is not always fun or helpful. Not because I say so, because you might not see actual offenses or defenses run. Usually you get the "4-star" offense. Four guys standing around the 3 point line and one guy that think they are Shaq trying to post up.



I tried it and I did not like it. It did not help me get better and I worked with many partners that did not even do HS games or any other HS ball, so I could not work on any mechanics and the guys I worked with did not know the rules. Not sure that has anything to do with being elitist, it has more to do with sharing my experience that it did not help. Ultimately an individual has to decide what they want to do. Some people have to figure it out for themselves.



This is another thing I do not agree with. Because the atmosphere is totally different and the things you might allow a man to say to you, you should never allow a child to say to you. And many officials do not make distinctions between the levels.

Peace
So just because you couldn't improve or work on your game doing it doesn't mean others can't.

I know for an absolute fact that my game management skills improved greatly. So did my judgment. And by concentrating on what I was doing my mechanics didn't take a hit either.

Not only that but leagues very greatly...I've done the sumo-ball and I've done leagues where you had several former NBA and D1 players and you can't tell me that that level of play doesn't improve your skills.

So all that are out there thinking about it just know that it won't always be pleasant but unlike what some are saying you can and will get something from it. Just like getting officiating advice, take from it what works and disregard the rest.

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
So just because you couldn't improve or work on your game doing it doesn't mean others can't.

I know for an absolute fact that my game management skills improved greatly. So did my judgment. And by concentrating on what I was doing my mechanics didn't take a hit either.

Not only that but leagues very greatly...I've done the sumo-ball and I've done leagues where you had several former NBA and D1 players and you can't tell me that that level of play doesn't improve your skills.

So all that are out there thinking about it just know that it won't always be pleasant but unlike what some are saying you can and will get something from it. Just like getting officiating advice, take from it what works and disregard the rest.
Once again, it is just an opinion. And I have worked a tournament with former D1 and lower level college and former NBA players. It was not all that. And all it did was frustrate the hell out of me and many officials that worked the games. As a matter of fact many of the officials that worked those games were not officials that all of a sudden got better schedules as a result. And that is why I never said to not do it, but I personally think it is very much hit and miss if you get much out of it. And I am not the only one that has come to that conclusion. Now where you live this might be the bomb, but in my experience most officials do this for a pure money grab. And they do not care about helping other officials get better or trying to use proper mechanics.

That being said, the young officials had to choose for themselves what is right for them. I do not think you or I can do anything but share our experiences. And if they choose to work that level, they can decide either way.

Peace

lpbreeze Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:22am
I've liked doing the rec games so far but I can see why people wouldn't like them. I've had adults swear to me that they never touched the guy when the player they fouled is lying on the floor bleeding.:rolleyes: The funny/sad thing is they aren't kidding. You could be the best ref in the world and a rec game could still be filled with tons of complaints. But having played in a few adult leagues I'm gotten used to the situations and as a ref I'm just rolling with it and the games have gone smoothly enough. and wearing shorts is nice too.

tomegun Tue Feb 26, 2008 07:24am
I can speak for Southern Nevada and the DC area (I don't officiate at all in Mississippi during the off season - not by choice). Rec ball is officiated by everyone in those two areas and I got something out of doing it. My friends do it, regardless of their level, and it does help. The thing (for me) about rec ball is something has to give. I'm crazy enough that I refused for that something to be me and I gained from the experience. If Rut is saying people in his area don't do it, then that works for them. If someone lived in one of the areas I mentioned and didn't do something during the off season, they would eventually fall behind. I've reffed from 3rd grade to an over 50 league and would do it right now. Well, maybe not the little kids anymore. :D

YMMV

Bearfanmike20 Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:07am
Thank you all for the opinions. They are all much appreciated.

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
If Rut is saying people in his area don't do it, then that works for them. If someone lived in one of the areas I mentioned and didn't do something during the off season, they would eventually fall behind. I've reffed from 3rd grade to an over 50 league and would do it right now. Well, maybe not the little kids anymore. :D

YMMV
I did not say people do not do those levels. Of course there are people those games, but it is not a level official's association advocate or asks their membership to cover as a training opportunity. We do not use those games for camps like other levels to teach officials mechanics. Usually people that do them find out word of mouth and work those games as a money opportunity. And usually the officials that are newer that work them, develop bad habits that tend to be hard to break. There are many officials that never work them and I have known many officials stop working all together based on their Men's leagues experiences.

Peace

blindzebra Tue Feb 26, 2008 02:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I did not say people do not do those levels. Of course there are people those games, but it is not a level official's association advocate or asks their membership to cover as a training opportunity. We do not use those games for camps like other levels to teach officials mechanics. Usually people that do them find out word of mouth and work those games as a money opportunity. And usually the officials that are newer that work them, develop bad habits that tend to be hard to break. There are many officials that never work them and I have known many officials stop working all together based on their Men's leagues experiences.

Peace
The assigner for the Big Sky holds her camp during the Grand Canyon State Games, you know with games ranging from youth, club teams, to mens rec teams.

Must just be an Illinois thing.:rolleyes:

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
The assigner for the Big Sky holds her camp during the Grand Canyon State Games, you know with games ranging from youth, club teams, to mens rec teams.

Must just be an Illinois thing.:rolleyes:
I attended the camp from the supervisor of the Big 12 and Conference USA (Ohio Valley and Sun Belt as well). I have also attend the camp for the supervisor of the Horizon League as well as many other camps for lower level college conferences and they never have they used a Men's League (or anything called a wreak league) to evaluate officials by or run a camp under. Actually I have never worked a D1 camp with anything lower than high school players and teams and last year one of the camps has JUCO/lower level college players and teams. Neither supervisor is from Illinois or has any background from Illinois. And one of the supervisors only has one school out of all those mentioned in Illinois at all.

I have also never attended a Certified Camp with the IHSA (required to keep your license with the IHSA) that used a Men's League to evaluate officials for mechanics or hiring officials for local high school assignors.

Peace

blindzebra Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I attended the camp from the supervisor of the Big 12 and Conference USA (Ohio Valley and Sun Belt as well). I have also attend the camp for the supervisor of the Horizon League as well as many other camps for lower level college conferences and they never have they used a Men's League (or anything called a wreak league) to evaluate officials by or run a camp under. Actually I have never worked a D1 camp with anything lower than high school players and teams and last year one of the camps has JUCO/lower level college players and teams. Neither supervisor is from Illinois or has any background from Illinois. And one of the supervisors only has one school out of all those mentioned in Illinois at all.

I have also never attended a Certified Camp with the IHSA (required to keep your license with the IHSA) that used a Men's League to evaluate officials for mechanics or hiring officials for local high school assignors.

Peace
And out comes the resume.

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:17pm
Anyone can pay money to attend a camp right?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
And out comes the resume.
How is a attending a camp a resume? :rolleyes:

Peace

Adam Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
How is a attending a camp a resume? :rolleyes:

Peace
It could appear so to those who have never been....

:D

blindzebra Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
It could appear so to those who have never been....

:D
Some don't feel the need to publicize our attendance in an attempt to puff out as if it made our opinion stronger.

blindzebra Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
How is a attending a camp a resume? :rolleyes:

Peace
An officials resume includes levels worked, playoff games at those levels, camps attended, etc. It's just like any other resume, it lists your experience in the field.

You'd think someone who posts all those things every chance he gets would know such things.:rolleyes:

JRutledge Tue Feb 26, 2008 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
It could appear so to those who have never been....

:D
It must be. I paid my money just like everyone else. If I did not pay money, I would not have attended. And the only reason I mentioned it because someone thought that the Big Sky's procedures were the way to go.

I am sure there are more people trying to get into the Big 12, then the Big Sky. Just a guess on my part.

Peace


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