Wreck ball...
 

I think I'm going to open my availability to Wreck ball... I need to keep officiating. I've done about 65 games in the last 3 months, but I feel I need more... I'm hoping this will get me ready for next season by continuing with wreck and summer league ball.

Any advice...

I used to work a lot of Rec (short for recreation) leagues (don't do as much of that now) so I think I can offer some advice. I'd say it's not a bad idea to keep the rust off, but don't get burned out. In my experience, in Rec leagues the quality of play goes down and the amount of complaining goes up. I would be careful that you don't burn yourself out. Also, be careful not to build any bad habits. working game after game when you know no one is going to notice placement or mechanics might be an easy way to build bad habits.

Just my $.02. Good luck!!

One of the hardest parts I find about switching between "the senior circuit" and "wreck ball" is the level of my partners. The level of actual play is easier for me to adjust to.

The "wreck" officials are often unschooled and have the same understanding of the rules as the coaches, players, fans, etc. Maybe young kids who don't care so much, looking for some extra cash, distracted, etc. Therefore I find it especially harder to watch my primary and let them do their jobs - they ball watch most of the time.

Helping with the rules, teaching, mentoring, helping the younger officials (those that want to learn) - I certainly enjoy that part of wreck ball and the fact that some coaches and players actually appreciate having a "real official" who actually looks the part, knows most of the rules (I still have a ways to go though) and puts out the effort.

Concentrate on things you want to work on and don't burnout. Good for you for giving back!

(edited for spelling - duh)

Sure. Change your mind.

If you decide to do it, call the T early and often.

I'm not sure how systems are built in your area but here we have some pretty good quality CYO teams/leagues. Also we are pretty forutnate with some AAU teams around the area. I would try to find some games like that. They are more structured and the the level of play is better. You'll also find, or at least we do here, most of the other officials in these leagues are HS level officials making it easier to keep proper mechanics.

When you get into the Men's Rec leagues you have quality play for about 4 minutes before everyone starts gassing out then it's all downhill from there. JMO

There is more than enough summer ball around, I would not do that.

Peace

Why not? You're new and the more games you do the better. I enjoy a good rec league with skilled players and rarely have had any problems. I probably do 50 games a year and have only a handful of T's. I look for mutual respect from players and it has served me well over the years. It's a warmup for me also with the speed of skilled players, many ex college guys and good high school players for my high school games and situations above the rim. The older guys(over 35 )can present more problems with their diminishing skill levels who still think they have 'game', it's also a good place to work on your 'people skills'.

If I have a 3 or 4 game set I'll work on my mechanics for a game or pick a half to try focus on coverage or reffing the defense or whatever.

IMHO, I think doing rec ball will help you confidence wise. Being in your first year, I don't think your mechanics will go to heck.

The fact that you refer to it as "wreck" ball (although probably true), tells me that you're not particularly fond of this league or level of play, so why subject yourself to it? I used to work some men's leagues when I first started, but I don't like the BS and whining you hear from the guys, so I stopped.

If it's really that bad, then officiating this kind of ball is going to frustrate you and you won't get anything out of it. Kind of like when a team is up by 30 points and still keeping on a full court press "just for the practice of pressing".

If the league has a decent skill level and (more importantly) will keep you focused, I say go for it. Otherwise pass as you'll wind up watching the clock (waiting for all zeros at the end of your final game) and you'll get lazy with your call selection and mechanics. If you want to do it just to keep in shape...go for a walk or join a gym.

AAU tournaments can provide some good games and the chance to see teams from outside of your local area, but it's been my experience to stay away from in-town rec/wreck stuff.

I am on a local rec league board and officiate in the league every year...I like the league and the board but the level of play does leave something to be desired...but at $25/game on Saturday mornings...it pays for the wife and I to go out to nice dinners and has paid for a spring break or two over the past 6 years! ;) Keeps me in shape and I enjoy it....

As noted, if you have a facility that runs "travel" or AAU leagues/tourneys, get in there and work those. Do you have anything like this place in your area? This is where I spend a lot of time calling games and there are plenty of good teams that compete here at their JRHS level...

http://www.thefieldhouse.com

Got any connections... who do I contact... I want to stay busy. Right now I just plugged into the arbiter.

It is a little early for summer basketball assigning. I can forward that information to you when they start assigning. That probably will not really start happening until April and more than likely May. Send me a PM and we can exchange emails.

You can use rec ball to work on your people skills, although even I, as the eternal optimist, will tell you it can be very difficult and test your patience to its limits. Rec games are the hardest to deal with players. They are far more irrational, know the rules the least, and at times have the lowest skill level of any you'll work. IF you can find a way to communicate with them, keep the emotions of the game under control, and prevent cheap shots and fights, you may find a tool or two you can use. They're not for working on mechanics, but you can use it to calibrate your judgment, and how to communicate when a poor player with a bad attitude questions you. Perfect trial and error laboratory.

I actually enjoy rec ball. Gets me a free membership to the athletic club I work out at, and I have made tons of contacts with people through it.

BearFan - there is a BIG difference between Adult Rec leagues and Kid's Rec leagues. I wouldn't touch the Adult leagues with a 50 foot pole if I were you. I hinestly do not see any benefits from doing that level of ball (other than earning some cash). The kids rec leagues are a different story, imo. You can actually get some benefit from those games - working on mechanics, etc. - because your partners quite often are others just like you, not just the guys looking for the extra cash...

What is called "wreak ball" around here is usually has nothing to do with kids. Kid’s basketball is usually associated with a school or a travel/AAU type team. And in either case, a lot of what benefit you will get out of the league is going to depend on the league and the kind of games. And I have not seen any "wreak" ball that has a normal clock and normal rules procedures that would require or expect good mechanics. In most games with youth basketball is not much different than the adult variety just they are with kids.

I think this is not the case in many areas. Most schools have a basketball program of some kind and that is where most kids are going to play. The days of the YMCA having an in-house team do not seem to be very common anymore.

Peace

Guess it depends on where you're at. Around here we have LOTS of non-school stuff for the kids. Most of the HS teams have "Select" teams for younger kids who will eventually end up going to that HS. There is the Oregon Prep league that plays all over the place. Lots of AAU stuff. And many of the Middle Schools do not have athletic programs so the kids play Community Ed leagues...

Concur - when I talk Wreck ball, I am referring to the youth Recreational Leagues in my area - NOT adult leagues. Never even thought about that.

Sheesh, it's bad enough I gotta worry about NFHS vs IABO vs NCAA vs NBA rules.....now I gotta worry about the definition of Rec ball? :eek: Yikes, I'm a bit slow!

If you're going to work wreck ball, then go in with the attitude that you're going to work on your game. Have a couple of things in mind every game to work on, then do it. In fact, it can be a great place to work on things that might otherwise be distracting in a "real" game. Do not let yourself become lazy in your mechanics or lax in calling the game.

The burnout factor is real. You're probably not worried about it now. But you don't want to get to next season and realize that you don't want to do it any more. So set a reasonable limit on how many games you work, even if they want you every night of the week.

Finally, don't take any more crap in a wreck league game than you would in a HS varsity. Especially in men's leagues where, over time, whining steadily fills the void vacated by any actual ability they used to have. Make 'em play good D; clean up the stupid little stuff these long-in-the-tooth former warriors have come to depend on because they've lost a step. If you can keep the play clean and the ball goes in the hole, well, that's about the best you can hope for really.

Not every area is organized the same. Basketball is big time in this state and most schools have basketball programs. There would be not very many kids to participate if you tried to have a wreck league. And now all types of summer programs with either AAU or YBOA (there are a couple of other organizations) there are not any youth basketball leagues like the YMCA anymore. There might be a few, but it is not the norm.

Peace

Totally agree with JRut...the YMCA/Church/School Township Leagues are losing players every year.

Our rec program is down 60 kids(6 teams) in the 5th/6th grade league just from last year. We only have 12 teams in that league and 12 in the 3rd/4th and 12 in 7th/8th. About 4 years ago you had 18 teams in each league or 540 kids.

The reason...multi-sport facilities and dedicated hoops facilities like the one I posted earlier are opening fast and in a hurry in Indy. There are now 4 of these places around the city and another one on the far northside just opened up as well. The teams/leagues are more competitive and "open" format like AAU where you'll have kids from multiple schools on one team.

Our rec league only allows the kids within the township to play in it, so there is a "limited" number of kids available anyway...They field 2-3 "travel" teams from grades 3-6 so that pulls outta the number of kids in the rec program.

Understand, thanks for the look at how other parts of the country do it.

Here in NVA some counties have large MS and small/no Youth Rec Leagues, while others have no MS and large Youth Rec Leagues. Plus, we have travel and AAU teams - then JV and Varsity.

Some Youth Rec have Spring and Summer leagues too. Lots to do here! ....and that's without doing "Adult Rec" league which I admit I am not familiar with here.

The only point that I was trying to make is wreak ball in this state, is not likely that dealing with kids.

There is an organization that is called the Illinois Elementary High School Association. It works similarly to the IHSA and has most middle schools and elementary schools as members throughout the state. The reason that is important is because these games are run like normal games and have standards of sportsmanship and consequences for bad behavior.

In the Chicago area most schools are not a member of the IESA (if any at all). But most middle schools or grammar schools still have basketball teams but they either are just a member to a local conference and they play amongst each other for a no specific title.

The IESA has a state champion in different classes or divisions for their members. All these examples take place during the school year.

And because Bear is from my surrounding area, what we would call wreck ball is not the same thing as what others here might call wreck ball. Wreak ball is Adults playing basketball at some park district or school with has-beens and never weres trying to act like they can still play. And the rules can vary in many ways as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior. I would never recommend a newer official to work those to improve their game. If they want to make an extra buck, that is fine if they realize the things that come with that type of game.

Peace

This is more what I was wondering...

So your saying that I wont benefit much from these games??

Just two words: mor phene :rolleyes:

And the mor, the better! :p

I think everyone has to decide what they can get out of something themselves. I just think there are plenty of other opportunities to get better and to keep up on your officiating. The problem is that the people you work with and the quality of the games are not likely going to be top-notch. If you go into with one intention you might run into something else.

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

Sure the ball is often poor and the attitude of the players even worse BUT knowing that going in allows you to get past it. You can work on your game, work on your game management and you get ample opportunity to weed through all the screw ball situations without the worry you'd have about getting it right.

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

Thats what I was thinking... that I would weed through alot of the bs stuff that i havn't seen yet. The level that I'm doing is.. "too nice"... I havn't issued a T... not that I want to, but I need to push myself... to handle the messy situations too....

Then men's rec leagues are definitely what you're looking for! lol

Around here, most of the refs with whom I work use the term "wreck ball" just for men's leagues. Kids leagues are not usually put in the same category at all. It's very unusual to find kids who are angry at life because 10 or 20 years ago they were cut from their HS team and, of course, it was because the coach played favorites and life just isn't fair so now they have something to prove, including taking out the aggressions that built up that day at work and at home onto a basketball court. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...illy_nilly.gif

Or something like that.

Recreation Ball ...
 

When I first started officiating, I did several years of high school level recreation basketball. With the exception of "convenient" switching, I treated these games like any other high school varsity, or junior varsity assignment. When I first started, the coaches, and players, weren't used to me, and what I expected from them in terms of sportsmanship, etc., so there were lots of technical fouls. After a several games they all got used to me, watching me consistently make calls from week to week, watching me hustle, observing me showing up in full proper uniform, etc. After that, it was easy. I was even asked to do playoff games, by the coaches, every year.

Set a good example, set high expectations for yourself, and the coaches and players will follow suit.

I disagree with that. There are a lot of experiences many people do not want to face or deal with. Officiating is not always fun at all levels. And working wreck ball is not always fun or helpful. Not because I say so, because you might not see actual offenses or defenses run. Usually you get the "4-star" offense. Four guys standing around the 3 point line and one guy that think they are Shaq trying to post up.

I tried it and I did not like it. It did not help me get better and I worked with many partners that did not even do HS games or any other HS ball, so I could not work on any mechanics and the guys I worked with did not know the rules. Not sure that has anything to do with being elitist, it has more to do with sharing my experience that it did not help. Ultimately an individual has to decide what they want to do. Some people have to figure it out for themselves.

This is another thing I do not agree with. Because the atmosphere is totally different and the things you might allow a man to say to you, you should never allow a child to say to you. And many officials do not make distinctions between the levels.

Peace

So just because you couldn't improve or work on your game doing it doesn't mean others can't.

I know for an absolute fact that my game management skills improved greatly. So did my judgment. And by concentrating on what I was doing my mechanics didn't take a hit either.

Not only that but leagues very greatly...I've done the sumo-ball and I've done leagues where you had several former NBA and D1 players and you can't tell me that that level of play doesn't improve your skills.

So all that are out there thinking about it just know that it won't always be pleasant but unlike what some are saying you can and will get something from it. Just like getting officiating advice, take from it what works and disregard the rest.

Once again, it is just an opinion. And I have worked a tournament with former D1 and lower level college and former NBA players. It was not all that. And all it did was frustrate the hell out of me and many officials that worked the games. As a matter of fact many of the officials that worked those games were not officials that all of a sudden got better schedules as a result. And that is why I never said to not do it, but I personally think it is very much hit and miss if you get much out of it. And I am not the only one that has come to that conclusion. Now where you live this might be the bomb, but in my experience most officials do this for a pure money grab. And they do not care about helping other officials get better or trying to use proper mechanics.

That being said, the young officials had to choose for themselves what is right for them. I do not think you or I can do anything but share our experiences. And if they choose to work that level, they can decide either way.

Peace

I've liked doing the rec games so far but I can see why people wouldn't like them. I've had adults swear to me that they never touched the guy when the player they fouled is lying on the floor bleeding.:rolleyes: The funny/sad thing is they aren't kidding. You could be the best ref in the world and a rec game could still be filled with tons of complaints. But having played in a few adult leagues I'm gotten used to the situations and as a ref I'm just rolling with it and the games have gone smoothly enough. and wearing shorts is nice too.

I can speak for Southern Nevada and the DC area (I don't officiate at all in Mississippi during the off season - not by choice). Rec ball is officiated by everyone in those two areas and I got something out of doing it. My friends do it, regardless of their level, and it does help. The thing (for me) about rec ball is something has to give. I'm crazy enough that I refused for that something to be me and I gained from the experience. If Rut is saying people in his area don't do it, then that works for them. If someone lived in one of the areas I mentioned and didn't do something during the off season, they would eventually fall behind. I've reffed from 3rd grade to an over 50 league and would do it right now. Well, maybe not the little kids anymore. :D

YMMV

Thank you all for the opinions. They are all much appreciated.

I did not say people do not do those levels. Of course there are people those games, but it is not a level official's association advocate or asks their membership to cover as a training opportunity. We do not use those games for camps like other levels to teach officials mechanics. Usually people that do them find out word of mouth and work those games as a money opportunity. And usually the officials that are newer that work them, develop bad habits that tend to be hard to break. There are many officials that never work them and I have known many officials stop working all together based on their Men's leagues experiences.

Peace

The assigner for the Big Sky holds her camp during the Grand Canyon State Games, you know with games ranging from youth, club teams, to mens rec teams.

Must just be an Illinois thing.:rolleyes:

I attended the camp from the supervisor of the Big 12 and Conference USA (Ohio Valley and Sun Belt as well). I have also attend the camp for the supervisor of the Horizon League as well as many other camps for lower level college conferences and they never have they used a Men's League (or anything called a wreak league) to evaluate officials by or run a camp under. Actually I have never worked a D1 camp with anything lower than high school players and teams and last year one of the camps has JUCO/lower level college players and teams. Neither supervisor is from Illinois or has any background from Illinois. And one of the supervisors only has one school out of all those mentioned in Illinois at all.

I have also never attended a Certified Camp with the IHSA (required to keep your license with the IHSA) that used a Men's League to evaluate officials for mechanics or hiring officials for local high school assignors.

Peace

And out comes the resume.

Anyone can pay money to attend a camp right?
 

How is a attending a camp a resume? :rolleyes:

Peace

It could appear so to those who have never been....

:D

Some don't feel the need to publicize our attendance in an attempt to puff out as if it made our opinion stronger.

An officials resume includes levels worked, playoff games at those levels, camps attended, etc. It's just like any other resume, it lists your experience in the field.

You'd think someone who posts all those things every chance he gets would know such things.:rolleyes:

It must be. I paid my money just like everyone else. If I did not pay money, I would not have attended. And the only reason I mentioned it because someone thought that the Big Sky's procedures were the way to go.

I am sure there are more people trying to get into the Big 12, then the Big Sky. Just a guess on my part.

Peace

I have an officiating resume, and no where on the resume is what camp I attended. If I did have camps attended, there would be little place for real accomplishments. And I have never been asked by a supervisor of any conference ask what camp I attended, whether that is high school or college. They do not care what you attended, they care who you work for.

I do not see myself or many people from any part of the Midwest to be seriously eligible for the Big West Conferences.

Peace

The prosecution rests.

The funny part is you actually think you won something.

You brought up the Big Sky. If you want to use a conference camp as a point, then you cannot get upset when others use the same point with other camps.

And honestly, I do not care what camps have their officials work when attending. Most officials that would attend a Division 1 camp or should attend one of those camps are not going the people this discussion is made for.

There are many people that do not think it is worth anyone's time. If you feel opposite that is fine with me, but that is your opinion and only your opinion. Just like I would never suggest an official to work those levels is my opinion as well and only my opinion. At the end of the day a person has to decide for themselves. And most officials around here do not endorse those games other than to make some money. And the person posting is not from your area.

Peace

The funny part is you are too dense to even get the point.

So I'll spell it out all remedial style for you.

Any discussion becomes this:

1. In Illinois...with the usual condescending tone, as if Illinois is the only place doing things right.

2. I work this, I work that, I went to this, I went to that...as if it adds weight to your opinion.

Here is the truth, neither adds to the discussion, all it does is make you look like an arrogant prick.

Bear asked for opinions and he lives in my backyard. I have very specific knowledge of who he can work for and who assigns what.

Can you give him that information? Do you know the associations and who are influential in those associations? Can you tell him what leagues are available and that he can work from Lake County, DuPage County, Cook and Kane Counties? Do you know what colleges and high schools can run leagues in this area? Do you know the people that assign high school leagues around here? Do you know the people that run camps around here? Can you run a camp for the IHSA for certification (required to keep a license and work post season)?

You know the answer to all of these things. And I can give that information and have given that information too many people that post from my area. And that information is not exclusive to me, because every day during the summer I get emails asking to share information with fellow officials about leagues and camps at all levels so that young officials to the biggest veterans can work those games.

And if that makes me an arrogant prick to share that information, I guess the many officials that shared the same information with me when I moved to this area in 1999, are also arrogant pricks. And that would include Bob J who also gave me similar information when he realized I moved here and that information allowed me to attend camps and meet assignors so I could work games during the regular season.

I guess we all have to be upset about something.

Peace

Correct. If you are good out West, you get an invite to WCC/Pac-10 or the WAC/Mountain West and courted. That's why Big Sky has to go get people from Minnesota. Many refuse to work the conference.

I did not make my comments to dig on the Big Sky conference. My point is simply a response to the comments that what the Big Sky does is so much more special than other conference supervisors. I am know if you look at all the Division 1 supervisors they all have a different way of doing things and picking and training their officials. One of the supervisors I mentioned ran his camps by only charging $50, which is very unique. I have no idea which is better or uses the best system, but it is clear that what the Big Sky is not what other supervisors agree to based on holding camps around Men’s or wreak leagues.

Peace

Another thread makes reference to officials working for more than one conference, or did it say major conference? Does this mean Big Sky is not a major conference and has its own officials that work there exclusively? Or are these guys suspended from Big Sky conference games, but could go work elsewhere, (men's rec league:D ) or what?

Big Sky is a mid-major. So ... yeah. I'd expect to see those guys doing a set of county rec games one night soon that they hadn't really planned on. ;)