Ratting out a fellow ref?
 

We had an interesting development at a BV game the other night. I had reffed the game prior, GV, and stuck around to watch the boys. When I do this I sit by myself, i don't applaud, I don't cheer. I merely watch. As the BV game approached halftime, there was a major player collision at mid court: A1 attempted to save a ball going out of bounds on his endline. As he grabbed and threw the ball high and deep into the court, he stepped on the line which drew a whistle from the lead. However, his toss sent the ball on its way towards the top of the key. A2 was moving towards the ball as was B1: A2 a 5-11, 150 lb PG, B1 a 6-4 225lb all-state linebacker. They were approaching from opposite directions, facing each other as they went for the ball which was coming down between them. On the OOB whistle, both players slowed down a bit but locked their arms together at the elbow when they collided. Accordingly, the 225 all stater brought his arm down which brought A2 down like a sack of potatoes. The refs were preparing for the throw-in so only one ref, the trail, got a look at the play and he chose to not make a call. As a fan (and official), I concurred. However, we were in As gym, where the no call brought fans to the edge of the court, including their AD, pointing and screaming at the refs. Much discussion followed, with no call except the OOB. This was just before half. I went in to see my ref brothers at half, heard them discuss their dismay with the situation, but felt they got the call right: I concurred. On my way out of the gym, I was approached by Team A's AD. He asked if I had seen the play. I said I did, waiting for him to ask what I thought (he had displayed quite a bit of anger as he attended to A2). To my surprise, he asked if I had watched HIM and what HE had done on the court. It seems his principal told him his over-the-top conduct was going to draw him an official school reprimand. He asked if I had seen him, and as the official from the prior game, could I tell his super what had happened, that he hadn't misbehaved. I told him I had been watching the players and the refs, nothing else. He THEN asked if the play should have drawn a foul on B1? I told him that the fans certainly expect calls when they see and hear what they had just seen but that not all contact is a foul and that the refs on the floor had the best view of anyone in the gym. After that, I got in my car and went home. I find out today he went back to talk to the refs after the game and told them he had spoken with an official who had seen the play and that they had blown the call. Of course the refs saw the AD intercept me as I was leaving the gym. They put 2 and 2 together and got 5: I had ratted them out (their words, not mine). I have since relayed my version to the affected refs. Not sure where they stand. I am surprised at the liberty the AD took with my words. Just venting here as I mull whether or not to call him. And, did I cross a line by even entertaining his question?

Don't call him. Instead, have your lawyer contact the school district and ask who their legal representative is that needs to be notified of intent to file a slander suit against a district employee.

That should get some response.

I would NEVER turn in an official for a game that I was not reffing, but...

I have turned in partners that I have had for HORRIBLE conduct that should never happen. EX: Screaming at coaches and fans.

Man, that's a bummer. Sounds like you have contacted the officials from the game - I'd be sure they knew exactly what I said and that you're quite upset w/ the AD changing what you said.

I don't know that I'd contact the AD directly - I don't know that it serves a purpose at this point.

The only thing I may have changed from your description is to back up the officials even more - by saying from your angle in the crowd you thought it was actually the right (no) call. Then he has to out-and-out lie to tell them what he told them. The way you put it "they had the best angle and not all contact is a foul" could be interepreted as a PC way of saying "I didn't agree with it."

I wouldn't have gotten into what he did, but I'm never afraid to tell a coach or administrator that I agree with officials' calls in another game. Especially when I actually do agree!

Silence cannot be quoted. If you did not have the conversation with the AD, he could not take the conversation to another level.

Peace

Forgot this part...
 

When the play happened, I was sitting two people away from the mom of the injured player. Of course, she was surrounded by all her friends. And, of course, all her friends felt the need to support her by hurling as many curses and insults as they could at the refs. One of them then asks me, "You were the ref in the other game, wasn't that a foul?" I don't remember what I said but I remember his reply, "You sons a *****in refs are all the same." I think I had concurred with refs call. That comment is what drove me to be a bit more political with the AD. Not that I disagree with your comment...And, JRut, you are right, silence is golden. However, I felt the verbal support of my brothers was needed at the time.

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

I keep my gear in the locker room
 

so I don't have to keep an eye on it in the stands. This is standard for refs in our area that watch subsequent games. I usually watch until half and then leave (young kids at home, like to say goodnight to them before they hit the sack).

Pretty standard a lot of places for officials to listen in on pre-game, halftime, and post-game of officials in other games.

In our association, we always let our fellow refs come in at halftime and after the games. All we say is, let the crew have their own discussion first, and then if you have anything to add or ask about, feel free. Generally, the crew takes a few minutes at halftime to discuss things, and then at some point, we will ask our fellow officials who were watching if they've seen anything else, or even ask their opinion about a specific play such as this situation.

Not sure if this would alleviate any issues but if you were to gather the AD and the other officiating crew together to speak about this, the truth could come out....sounds as if the AD is not going to be forthright with your actual words but having all interested parties face to face certianly can eliminate the he said, he said garbage...

This is common practice around here. If I'm spectating and come in during halftime, I will offer any input if asked. If not, I don't say anything in regards to particular plays in the game or calls in general. If I'm reffing and I have fellow officials come in on my game and I know they were in the stands, I solicit their input.

As a young official, I always try to stay and watch the varsity game when I do the JV game - it's helped me learn a ton, especially about communication with partners & coaches. I think it's a great tool when you have guys who like to teach. That being said, I stay quiet until they're done talking about adjustments/situations for the next half.

Working Boys frosh/JV with a 13 yr veteran. Intro'd myself prior, explaining I'm a 2nd year newbe. Pardner seemed depressed about something, said he didnt like working these games, while I was excited (persective, no?). Frosh game a blowout, w/no problems.
JV visitor had a player throw an elbow after a rebound, no contact, and was warned about it. Close game in the 4thQ, loose ball "scrum" in the paint, when lead calls a foul. Vcoach then yells to partner that "he's losing control of the game" (no rough play to that point, and 1st words heard from that coach ). Partner immediately whistles/signals a T. I'm walking toward Vcoach to seatbelt him when partner reports T on player #34 (elbowman). Game plays out w/ no other issues.
Officials room is just offcourt and I catch up to partner right as we enter room(with the 3 V officials), and ask him what #34 did to get the T(I'm thinking he threw an elbow). He says he didnt like the look on 34's face and knew the coach would pull him off the floor.
All 3 V officials stop what they're doing and look at us, started questioning partner on why, with him kinda giving me the look.
Thought afterwards I might've thrown him under the bus, but never expected That answer, then thought that its his issue as 1) he actually admitted his real "reason " for the T and 2) saying it in front of the V guys.

The AD was concerned about what you saw and what could be reported to the principal. Speak with your association and have the board write a letter to the principal explaining the situation.

Remember, your child is an angel. Every other kid is a thug.

People hear what they want to hear and interpret it their own way. Its happened to me with coaches during games. In those instances I dont deal with those coaches anymore. Silent treatment the whole way.

Even the most innocent words can be twisted around. I completely agree. Try to avoid if possible, otherwise respectfully exit the building.

Your partner owns that one all on his own. There is nothing wrong with asking your partner what a player did to deserve a T in the way you did...away from the players/coaches/fans. The fact that other officials were there is not your problem. The fact that he made such a stupid call is all on him...he opened himself up to the grief he got.

The Nutmeg State
 

Same common practice here in Connecticut, especailly during conference and state tournament games. We all have membershnip cards that get us into all basketball games for free.

Or the coach could just feel cornered and become all the more insistent and demonstrative about his version of "the truth." Then what do you do? Try to shout him down? He knows he's in trouble, maybe even his job is on the line. He openly lied to the other officials. I doubt he's the sort of stand-up guy who would man up and admit to what he did.

Right on. The only person who should be discussing specifics with a coach or AD, besides the working officials, is the assignor. Post-game, working officials should defer to the assignor, and use him/her as their lawyer. It's a no-win situation for anyone else, unless you play the political game of cutting your teammates for your own gain. Whether you do that or not, that's what almost everyone will perceive.

Be careful about lodging formal complaints, too. My experience has been, that no matter how warranted, right or wrong, the people who file formal complaints generally suffer negative consequences, like being labeled over it. Not many people labeled as malcontents get better or great assignments. It is no different in the regular workplace, either. For everyone who wins a multi-million dollar discrimination or wrongful-termination lawsuit, there are literally a hundred who get hosed. Just be aware of the consequences. Some just don't care. My hat is off to them and their idealism. They make the world better by trying to change things that are wrong. But many suffer from it, too, sometimes regrettably so.

FWIW, Billy, you can actually get into any HS game in any sport for free.

Mark,

I thought the CIAC cards were good only for the sport(s) you officiate???

I Wish .....
 

My original quote: "We all have membershnip cards that get us into all basketball games for free."

Unfortunately, cmckenna is correct, our Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic
Conference (CIAC) officials cards only get us into the sport, or sports, that we officiate, for free.

Enjoy it while you have it. Here in TN, two years ago, starting with the State Tournament they quit allowing referees to attend free. As a result many schools have also quit allowing referees in during regular season and invitational tournaments.

I agree. However, it sounds as if the AD had no intention of honestly reporting what was said, so if there is any response (and there will be because we don't just ignore comments from people we know), its just as likely to be misquoted.

I think what I would do in this instance is, instead of leave, go back to the room and tell the guys that you were asked what you thought, and how you responded. And the response should be something supportive or that you didn't see the whole play. Or, say, "that's just one of those things that happens," a comment, like "didn't see whole play," that means absolutely nothing.

You could write a letter to the officials with a copy to your association, the AD & possibly the principal about the whole incident including the part about how the AD was in hot water with the principal. You may never work at that school again, but, then again, the AD may not be the AD there again, either.

Yep, NV went that way a couple of years ago. Now we pay $35 for the cards. They do work for all sports and all games though.

I just pulled my card out. On the back:

I know I've used mine to get into football games. Maybe we get different cards on our board.

Nevermind ...
 

Sorry, I only use mine for basketball, so I forgot about the other privileges we get as CIAC members. Thanks for reminding me. Who knows, someday I may want to go to a girls lacrosse match (in my worst nightmare).

My card explicitly states it is not good for admission to any game.

That's not what it says on the cards of the good officials.

Co-ed naked lacrosse -- rough, tough, and in the buff :D

Lacrosse Nightmare
 

I don't know about coed lacrosse, but girls lacrosse in Connecticut is not rough, or tough. I've seen boys lacrosse games. Even though I don't know the rules, it's enjoyable to watch, kind of like football with sticks. My niece played lacrosse against my hometown high school, so I went to watch her. Boring. I don't know the rules, but the officials kept blowing their whistles, all the time, for the entire match. Talk about game interrupters. No contact allowed, or so it seemed. It reminded me of a girls field hockey game, a game that could also become more interesting if a little incidental contact was allowed.

The whole "red light green light" aspect of it bugged me quite a bit.

You cut me deep.

You shoulda said <i>"You have wounded me to the quick, Sire."</i>

Or in your case, <i>"You have wounded me to the slow, Sire."</i> might be a little more apt.

You've wounded him to the glacial, your royal heiney. ;)