Coaches....What can you say?
 

I did 2 girls games this morning. The coach for the 8th grade team, her husband is a varsity coach for a girls team. I did their game Thursday night. This is the first time I have had one of here games since she left high school coaching 2 years ago. We have always gotten along.

Today, I go to her before the game a to break the ice and say " Coach if you are going to complain about my officiating, I am going to complain about your coaching" She jumps on me for calls that I made at her husband's game Thursday night. I called a push on his player in front of his bench. A good call. He complained loudly and several fans did as well. She tells me I called a terrible game and sited several plays, and she says " just as the fans behind the bench, they will tell you" I explained that the fans had no idea of the rules or how to enforce them. She was just angry. BTW, his team won by 42 points and used their subs a lot during the game. It was never close.

I could not believe she would behave like this. She lost this game by 20.

I don't really have a question, but I was thinking why would she want to make me angry at her? They won the game by 42, I had no influence on the game. Why not butter me up for this game? I don't get it. I always wanted the officials on my side before the game.

Are you serious, Turtle? Do you really expect coaches to butter you up before a game?

<b>NEVER</b> go and schmooze coaches before a game. Or during a game. Or after a game. Sucking around can <b>never</b> lead to anything that will end up being even remotely advantageous from an official's standpoint. As you found out above, it sureashell can lead to confrontation though. If you want to <b>respond</b> to a coach that wants to banter a little bit, fine, but do not <b>ever</b> initiate sessions like that.

You were directly responsible for that confrontation. If you keep away from the coach except for any info that must be passed along, you won't find yourself in situations like that.

Let the conversations come <b>from</b> the coaches...not vice-versa.

That is a statement I'd stay well away from....to many explosive possibilities.

Stay professional when in stripes!
 

I agree w/ previous responses. Camron's quote of your initial attempt to make small talk explains much of why you had this confrontation and unpleasant game

DO NOT initiate pre-game "banter", even if you think you are familiar acquantences with the coach(es). This does not mean you have to be rude or discourteous, just avoid putting yourself in a position that can (and often times does) become contentious.

Chalk it up to a lesson learned, the hard way.
:(

I will also agree that what you said to the coach would not be seen as appropriate in any way, unless you really knew that coach very, very well and they have went out of their way to give you credit for your ability. Other than that, leave those kinds of conversation alone. You are opening yourself (and you did) to the coach to overreact to what you have to say and the conversation might lead to more problems.

Peace

Hello Coach ....
 

Rookie officials: Please take serious note of Jurassic Referee's comments.

Now's the time of year when we often see more than two head coaches in the gym, coaches scouting teams, getting ready for conference, or state, tournaments. When I see a coach in the gym, and if he's anywhere near me, I simply extend my hand for a handshake, and say, "Hello coach, nice to see you". Period. End of discussion.

I do know her very well. I would say I have done 20 games for her and see her at all of her husbands games and we speak. This was the first time I officiated her game in 2 years.

Live and learn. Remember, I was a coach once also. 8 years as an offical and 11 years as a coach. I talked to all the officials when I coached and I never said a nasty word before the game and rarely ever after a game.

Thanks for the feed back.

A coach wanting to chat me up before a game is very different than me initiating the conversation (which I don't.)

What she heard: "Hey 'coach', you and your hubby were a%%&&&&s last night. If you're one today -and I expect that you will-, I'll take GREAT satisfaction in T'ing you up and tossing you out!"

Morman ????
 

How many does she have ???

Coaches....What can you say? A lot.

Coaches....What should you say? Very little.

You cannot misquote silence.

First you spelled the word wrong... it is Mormon,

Second to set the record straight the church banned polygamy in 1896

No difference than over the back, reaching or several other myths debunked on this board :)

"Everything Coming Up Roses"
 

The title of my post referred to the famous Broadway singer, Ethel Morman.

http://re3.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/25/m1/2061052292

Aren't there still some Mormons that practice polygomy, however with multiple wives and one husband, rather than one wife and multiple husbands, as I was referring to in the post?

I believe that there's a Utahref on the NFHS forum? Maybe he, or one of his wives, can settle this debate?

As previously mentioned the church banned polygamy in 1896.

There are splinter/fundamentalist groups that practice but it is illegal.

The Utah Constitution bans polygamy as well. It is a crimnal offense although not heavily prosecuted unless sex abuse of a minor involved..

65 In The Slow Lane ...
 

And it's illegal to travel faster than 65 mph in the State of Connecticut.

It's no myth that many fundamentalists Mormons still practice polygamy.

Well, then you still spelled it wrong. Her name is Merman.

One wife and several husbands is called polyandry. One husband and several wives is popularly referred to as polygamy, although it should be called polygyny. Polygamy is the "generic" for either of the two.

Why doesn't KElvin's assertion settle it?

Boy, I'm really glad we stuck to discussing basketball on this thread.

Polygamy is having one spouse too many.

Monogamy is the same thing.

Are you channeling JR lately? :D

While they (those who practice polygamy) may refer to themselves as Mormons, they're not. The official Mormon church doesn't not tolerate it and will excommunicate anyone who practices it.

Only Gave Up 21 Home Runs In His Career ...
 

Sorry again about the confusion. The title of my earlier thread was really referring to Alvin Morman, who pitched for the Kansas City Royals back in the late 1990's.

http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/16073.jpg

I didn't realize that Kelvin green was from Utah. It wasn't listed on his Forum profile. I would still like to hear from one of his wives, and then, I'll form my final opinion.

I'm going to assume that you're just yanking Kelvin's chain with your "one of his wives" jest and let him answer that one :D

I find it both amusing and baffling that the Mormons and polygamy myth persists. I'm a Utahn. I frequently joke about it. I love the Oscar Wilde quote that Bob posted above. I often quote my great grandfather who said: "If you've got one wife, she has nobody to argue with but you. If you have two wives, they can argue with each other and you can get some work done." Then there was the colorful old Englishman who told me he could never get into polygamy. But he was all over the serial monogamy thing!

So in the spirit of myth-busting, here are a few basic facts:

* The Mormon church did once practice polygamy.
* In 1890 the church officially renounced, and banned, the practice among its members.
* This angered some members, who left the church and formed their own churches. Many of those refer to themselves as "fundamentalist mormons."
* The Mormon church has no official or unofficial affiliation with these groups.
* Mormons who do begin practicing polygamy are summarily excommunicated. Polygamists wishing to join the Mormon church, even in countries where it is legal and common, must end the practice before joining.
* Outside of the Mormon church, polygamy is alive and well. They live in normal neighborhoods, in compounds, sometimes even whole cities.
* It seems the authorities in Utah and other states have little interest in prosecuting polygamy generally.
* But there have been some rather high profile prosecutions in the past few years. Tom Green, a polygamist who made the rounds on the daytime talk shows a few years back, brought some very unwanted legal attention on himself. Warren Jeffs' troubles and the Lost Boys situation have gotten national attention.

My sister-in-law is from a polygamist family. When she married my Mormon brother-in-law, it caused a rift in her family. A lot of them still don't speak to her. I had a friend in my local officials association who came from a polygamist family. He had some interesting stories to tell on a couple of long drives to distant schools.

I guess as far as myths go, the polygamy thing isn't too bad. It's at least plausible. Unlike the whole business about Mormons having horns. Or the transatlantic tunnel that supposedly ran from Liverpool, England to "the great walled city of Salt Lake."

It's too bad about the tunnel. Otherwise I'd be able to drive the family on a European vacation :D

Tunnel ????
 

I never heard about this tunnel. How much is the round trip toll. My daughter received a Melinda and Bill Gates Grant to study HIV/AIDS at St. George's Medical School in London, UK. I don't like, and I can't afford, flying long distances, and I would love to see her before she comes home in August.

Here's a recent photo. From left to right: Back In The Saddle, rainmaker, and Kelvin green:

http://re3.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/3972822526

You are getting yourself in the same kind of trouble as the OP.

Here's a recent case that occurred around here.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=4151108

Mohave County, Az
 

I spent some time in Kingman Az. I referred to it as Southern Utah. Heavy Mormon influence. Last yeat the big trial about the fundamentalists and sex abuse, happened in Kingman ,Az. There is a town up past the Grand Canyon where the several wives thing is the way it's done. I'm too lazy to research right now but I believe the town is called Cathedral City. there is another one up there. So it is still practiced , just not by mainstram Mormons.

Big problem for the male children that come out of these clans. Kicked out and no support systems, no mainstream social skills,drugs,alcohol, big homeless rate for these kids.

The city of St George Utah ends up cleaning up the mess.

The Mormans dropped polygamy because the rest of America was not going to let Utah become a state. This was the criterion that had to be met otherwise Utah would still be a territory.

I recall hearing a Paul Harvey story that Idaho was originally going to be called Utah.

Sorry, I don't know anything about many-wives.

Polygamy is a problem among Quaker churches in Kenya. I don't know about other denominations. But I do know that Quaker organizations there struggle to come up with a teaching that is acceptable to the consensus. After all, there were some very prominent polygamists in the Bible!

Wow, has this thread strayed off topic, or what?!?

I once had the offer to move to a Quaker settlement in Az. She was almost worth it but I passed.

Lowers Cholesterol ....
 

My favorite Quaker:

http://re3.mm-a8.yimg.com/image/4032890304

I tried to talk her into wearing the hat but she wasn't into it

I was told once
that you don't have to be a bigamist
to have one wife too many!
Carl
THE WEBNASI

This is a perfect example how innocent humor can get us in trouble. I would always be careful how we address coaches. Some of them have no sense of humor (or reality for that matter). I think as we gain the trust and establish a rapport with certain coaches, a little sarcasm or humor is ok if it fits the relationship you have.

Sarcasm ????
 

I agree, except for the sarcasm part. Humor is one thing, most normal people understand humor, but sarcasm is another story. Some people, not just coaches, don't understand, or react to sarcasm well.

My supervisor at work is very sarcastic. It took me a long time to realize that he wasn't trying to offend me, that this was just his way of dealing with certain situations, and I usually understand sarcasm.

Boys varsity game last week. First half, so Team A's bench is in front of Team B's frontcourt. I'm the trail, on the table side of the court. B1, with the ball, at the wing, tableside, makes an odd move, and Team A head coach, just a few feet behind me, getting the same look as me, says in a conversational tone, "travel?". Without looking back, I say, also conversationally, "No, left foot pivot". A few seconds later, B2, with the ball, also on the wing near both myself and the Team A coach, makes an odd move, and again, the coach says, "travel?". This time, it wasn't even close, so I just shake my head no. A few seconds later, B1 has the ball again, also near both of us, and makes almost the same move he made the first time, but he travels. At the same time that I'm blowing my whistle, the coach says, "travel?". As I turn to become the new lead, the Team A scorekeeper, says to both me, and the coach, "I guess you have to ask three times?". All three of us laughed. Sometimes humor can be a good thing, but watch out, not all the time.

I always thought a bigamist was an Italian fog.

And "hunky-dory" is a Hungarian rowboat.....

Groucho Marx, pointing to two women, "I want to marry you - and you."

One of the women protests, "But, that would be bigamy!"

Groucho arches his eyebrows, and replies, "Yes. I agree. That would be very big o' me".

Yup, you're right. Groucho Marx is worth coming out of hiding for. Welcome back!

Thanks, Rainmaker. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

No, no, stick around. You and Catherine Aird have been much missed. ALthough we do have more reasonable coaches here than ever before. But you were one of the first. And that makes you very, very welcome.

Umm.. how's your season been? Any interesting case plays or situations?

Say The Secret Word .....
 

"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it."

http://re3.yt-thm-a02.yimg.com/image/25/m6/3606216512

Groucho's humor is timeless.

As for your question Rainmaker - and I'm sure everyone is dying to know - my 19 year-old is playing D3 ball, although he'll redshirt this year because he broke his ankle in the second week of the seaon. My nine year-old is finishing up his rec season, and getting ready to start AAU ball (yeah, at nine years old - this is his second year!). In an effort to step back, I only coach the nine year-old's rec team.

As I probably mentioned a long time ago, I find myself a lot quieter at both my son's games. Three reasons: 1) Rules knowledge, 2) I sit down, which sort of squishes my brain and numbs it, and 3) I see other people screaming, making fools of themselves, and shudder, realizing I used to do that. Coaching and fanning are a lot more fun these days without the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I did have to ref a couple of third grade boys games (seven minute quarters, running clock) recently when a scheduling snafu resulted in us not having any refs. I gotta tell ya, reffing third grade boys is a real pain. My choice was to spend the entire game at the free throw line, or let them play. I decided to let them play. In retrospect, I'm not sure I made the right decision. Luckily, no one went to the hospital. One coach actually told me, "If you don't start calling fouls someone's going to get hurt." I almost spit my whistle out. I thought, "Hmmm, where have I heard that before?" Heck of a learning experience.

Old "Carnac The Magnificent" Johnny Carson joke. Still funny, though.

http://48facets.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/carnac.jpg

To try to get back on topic.....I "T"ed another one up last night. Maybe I didn't have to, but I did. My guess is that this was my first game with him, Varsity boys, and my partners must have done some of his games before. Because he was on me from the gate.

Every play he was complaining to me about a no call. He had a player drive into the lane at low post and the defender went vertical to defend, I got nothing. Another play his player shoots a 3 and comes back to the floor and the defender is there, ( nothing ) the shooter falls backwards trying to draw the foul, nothing there. On the way down the floor again the coach is chirping. I give him the stop sign and he continues. "T". then he asks why. I explain that I am not going to listen to him all night. Done. He went on to win by 15 and never said another word to me.

10 "T"s in 50 games. Most years I have 3 or 4 for the season. I know you say, they are what they are and most of them I feel confident about but 10 in one year....I hope it gets better next year.

BTW, one of the fun things was that I refed the game for a coach I used to coach with ( we coached the same team he was head coach, I was the assistant ) One call I made an PC foul on his player, He yells " Mr. Official " He didn't have position. I just thought it was funny, he called me " Mr. Official ".

I thought sure his team would win the game. He has 3 players over 6'5". The other team had no one over 6'1". He had his 6'7" player outside the 3 point line half the night. Makes you wonder. BTW, he was not a 3 point shooter. Just sharing.