Tracking down a wayward ball

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I keep my eyes on the players until my partner/partners is/are back in position. Usually by that time a player has brought me the ball, if not, THEN I will go retrieve the ball myself--if it's a rec league game with a running clock then my pace towards the ball and back to the admin spot is, for some reason, very slow

However, I do have a buddy of mine whom I happened to work with last night who refuses to track down any loose balls. He verbally solicits help from the players.

To each is own, but definitely not something that can be penalized.

Definitely not?

What if the official says "Please retrieve the ball" and the player refuses. Something in the rules about not complying with an official's directive, isn't there?

(Not that I'd ever do this, I'd just get the ball myself and call three straight cheapies on that player. )

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Definitely not?
What if the official says "Please retrieve the ball" and the player refuses. Something in the rules about not complying with an official's directive, isn't there?

Just b/c i'm intrigued by Satan, lawyers, and Al Pacino.

Ball-- 1) rolls under the bleachers or 2) all the way to the opposite sideline--at no fault of the player standing next to you. You say "Please retrieve the ball" and then...

1) Player re-emerges from under the bleachers with a bloody gash on his forehead.

2) Player decides to sprint across the court and entire gym watches as player puts on the brakes to stop in front of the ball and his right knee crumbles.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Just b/c i'm intrigued by Satan, lawyers, and Al Pacino.

Ball-- 1) rolls under the bleachers or 2) all the way to the opposite sideline--at no fault of the player standing next to you. You say "Please retrieve the ball" and then...

1) Player re-emerges from under the bleachers with a bloody gash on his forehead.

2) Player decides to sprint across the court and entire gym watches as player puts on the brakes to stop in front of the ball and his right knee crumbles.

The officials have one responsibility and one responsibility only: To observe the ten players on the court.

The game officials are not fix nets, or wipe water, sweat, blood, and vomit from the floor. Unless the game official is a medical doctor, registered nurse, or emergency medical technician he should not render medical assistance to an injured player. That means game officials do not go after loose balls.

Therefore, do not worry about (1) and (2) above. The game official was well within his rights to ask for anybody to retrieve the ball.

MTD, Sr.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The officials have one responsibility and one responsibility only: To observe the ten players on the court.

The game officials are not fix nets, or wipe water, sweat, blood, and vomit from the floor. Unless the game official is a medical doctor, registered nurse, or emergency medical technician he should not render medical assistance to an injured player. That means game officials do not go after loose balls.

Therefore, do not worry about (1) and (2) above. The game official was well within his rights to ask for anybody to retrieve the ball.

MTD, Sr.

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Bleachers? I'm not venturing underneath them nor do I expect a player to make that trip either. Something for game management to handle.

Ball across the court on far sideline? Me: "22, please go get that ball." 22: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault" So #22 gets a T for this?

[mick]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Bleachers? I'm not venturing underneath them nor do I expect a player to make that trip either. Something for game management to handle.

Ball across the court on far sideline? Me: "22, please go get that ball." 22: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault" So #22 gets a T for this?

U.P. here, the players will get the ball 99.9% of the time. 0.07% will just not think and the remainder has a possibility of getting whacked.
I do not remember any partner asking a player to retrieve a ball. That just isn't a rule it's a an act of cooperation.

I've been under the bleachers, out in the hall and even outside when the doors are open. No, I don't like it, but I do it. But until there is a rule that tells someone to do it then I get the dang thing the 1 time out of a 1,000 that ball doesn't come back.

The thing that really bothers me is waiting on the sideline after a game while a partner retrieves the game ball that we don't need any longer ! Aaaaarrrrgh !!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Bleachers? I'm not venturing underneath them nor do I expect a player to make that trip either. Something for game management to handle.

Ball across the court on far sideline? Me: "22, please go get that ball." 22: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault" So #22 gets a T for this?

BNR:

I agree about the bleachers, neither the players nor the officials should retrieve it, that is game management's problem. But if a player says to me: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault." I am going to tell him very politely that he WILL retrieve the ball when my partner or I ask him too. If the player still refuses, I will remind him that when he is a player on the court he will follows all instructions that he is given by the game officials. Usually by this time the ball has come back to me, and the player's coach is complaining to me about talking to his player, at which time I will let the coach know his player had refused to follow my instructions to retreive the ball and that the player is to comply with all instructions that the game officials give him. If the coach tells you that he won't let his players retreive the ball, then I let the coach know that the next time a player refuses to retreive the ball after being instructed to do so, that he, the Head Coach will get WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BNR:

I agree about the bleachers, neither the players nor the officials should retrieve it, that is game management's problem. But if a player says to me: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault." I am going to tell him very politely that he WILL retrieve the ball when my partner or I ask him too. If the player still refuses, I will remind him that when he is a player on the court he will follows all instructions that he is given by the game officials. Usually by this time the ball has come back to me, and the player's coach is complaining to me about talking to his player, at which time I will let the coach know his player had refused to follow my instructions to retreive the ball and that the player is to comply with all instructions that the game officials give him. If the coach tells you that he won't let his players retreive the ball, then I let the coach know that the next time a player refuses to retreive the ball after being instructed to do so, that he, the Head Coach will get WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.

Why not whack the captain instead?

[dkmz17]

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

[mick]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

"Just cuz" is often derived from common practice.
I know "the ball will come back", if we wait long enough. But I ain't gonna be standing there waiting, while my partner comes across the floor with the ball... for me.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

Go track down the ball -- turn your back -- let something happen that your partner missed because sometimes covering 10 players isnt that easy.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

It's covered as one of the umpires' duties in the officials manual. Section 3.1 It is the umpires' duty to "Determine whether ball runners are available to retrieve the ball at each end if the court has wide out-of-bounds areas or is on a raised stage or similar platform."

Rita

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Ball on the far sideline? Me: "22, please go get the ball". 22: "No sir, coach said we don't have to chase down balls unless it was our fault". So now we are going to T #22?

The thrust of my original question, when push comes to shove, who is responsible and what is the penalty, if any? Is it the team responsible for the ball being "loose", or if no team is really responsible for the loose ball, is it the game administation? What if this is a tournament situation and niether team is affliated with game administration?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

The thrust of my original question, when push comes to shove, who is responsible and what is the penalty, if any? Is it the team responsible for the ball being "loose", or if no team is really responsible for the loose ball, is it the game administation? What if this is a tournament situation and niether team is affliated with game administration?

We wait until SOMEONE retrieves the ball. Eventually, the kids will want to play and SOMEONE will get it. I don't chase basketballs if they aren't reasonably within reach.