Tracking down a wayward ball

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Question for blindzebra:

Would refusing to retrieve a loose ball put one in the same category as one who works without a lanyard?

Our job is observing the players during a dead ball, not retrieving a ball.

Now if you stand there chest puffed out, gut sucked in, biceps flexed, holding your whistle in you hand while you wait for a player to get it...then yeah it's the same category.

[w_sohl]

I had let the players chase the ball down until one of my partners who is one of our top level officials told me that if I did that when our assignor was evaluating he would have chewed my *** out. His thinking is, the players are working hard (as are we) so we should go get the ball for them. Now if it gets to far away it usually finds it way back to me on its own, but the ones that are close, I try to snag myself, but the players usually get to those first anyway.

[mick]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Bleachers? I'm not venturing underneath them nor do I expect a player to make that trip either. Something for game management to handle.

Ball across the court on far sideline? Me: "22, please go get that ball." 22: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault" So #22 gets a T for this?

U.P. here, the players will get the ball 99.9% of the time. 0.07% will just not think and the remainder has a possibility of getting whacked.
I do not remember any partner asking a player to retrieve a ball. That just isn't a rule it's a an act of cooperation.

I've been under the bleachers, out in the hall and even outside when the doors are open. No, I don't like it, but I do it. But until there is a rule that tells someone to do it then I get the dang thing the 1 time out of a 1,000 that ball doesn't come back.

The thing that really bothers me is waiting on the sideline after a game while a partner retrieves the game ball that we don't need any longer ! Aaaaarrrrgh !!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

I had let the players chase the ball down until one of my partners who is one of our top level officials told me that if I did that when our assignor was evaluating he would have chewed my *** out. His thinking is, the players are working hard (as are we) so we should go get the ball for them. Now if it gets to far away it usually finds it way back to me on its own, but the ones that are close, I try to snag myself, but the players usually get to those first anyway.

Your assignor is an idiot. And your partner has no intestional fortitude.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My argument is not with the request. It's with the expectation that the player MUST retrieve the ball if so requested and with the possibility of a T if the request is not adhered to.

Bleachers? I'm not venturing underneath them nor do I expect a player to make that trip either. Something for game management to handle.

Ball across the court on far sideline? Me: "22, please go get that ball." 22: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault" So #22 gets a T for this?

BNR:

I agree about the bleachers, neither the players nor the officials should retrieve it, that is game management's problem. But if a player says to me: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault." I am going to tell him very politely that he WILL retrieve the ball when my partner or I ask him too. If the player still refuses, I will remind him that when he is a player on the court he will follows all instructions that he is given by the game officials. Usually by this time the ball has come back to me, and the player's coach is complaining to me about talking to his player, at which time I will let the coach know his player had refused to follow my instructions to retreive the ball and that the player is to comply with all instructions that the game officials give him. If the coach tells you that he won't let his players retreive the ball, then I let the coach know that the next time a player refuses to retreive the ball after being instructed to do so, that he, the Head Coach will get WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BNR:

I agree about the bleachers, neither the players nor the officials should retrieve it, that is game management's problem. But if a player says to me: "No sir, coach says we don't have to chase down balls for refs unless it was our fault." I am going to tell him very politely that he WILL retrieve the ball when my partner or I ask him too. If the player still refuses, I will remind him that when he is a player on the court he will follows all instructions that he is given by the game officials. Usually by this time the ball has come back to me, and the player's coach is complaining to me about talking to his player, at which time I will let the coach know his player had refused to follow my instructions to retreive the ball and that the player is to comply with all instructions that the game officials give him. If the coach tells you that he won't let his players retreive the ball, then I let the coach know that the next time a player refuses to retreive the ball after being instructed to do so, that he, the Head Coach will get WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.

Why not whack the captain instead?

[dkmz17]

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

[mick]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

"Just cuz" is often derived from common practice.
I know "the ball will come back", if we wait long enough. But I ain't gonna be standing there waiting, while my partner comes across the floor with the ball... for me.

[grunewar]

My partner and I pre-gaming tonight for JVG game. I told him about a few situations on the forum this week......and we discussed them a bit.

Two minutes into the game, A in forecourt, TWEET, foul on B1. Ball hits a foot and rolls the entire length of the court. I'm L, my partner is T. No one is there.....ball continues to roll......out of the stands comes a parent, who stops it and rolls it back to the division line to my partner.

We got a good chuckle!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Now if you stand there chest puffed out, gut sucked in, biceps flexed, holding your whistle in your hand

So, you've seen Juulie ref?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

Go track down the ball -- turn your back -- let something happen that your partner missed because sometimes covering 10 players isnt that easy.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by deecee

Go track down the ball -- turn your back -- let something happen that your partner missed because sometimes covering 10 players isnt that easy.

AMEN!! For Brother DeeCee.

MTD, Sr.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by mick

Somewhere in one of the books, the referee talks to game administration (or table) about ball chasers. I couldn't find it.
If I recall correctly, there is no penalty.

It in the officials manual. I just read it this morning. Section 3.1 Pregame. It's one of the umpires' duties.

Rita

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Can you provide a rule cite requiring the player to get the ball? Are you just going to pick someone out at random? Why isn't it the official's responsibility to get the ball? Is this just a "because I said so" situation?

It's covered as one of the umpires' duties in the officials manual. Section 3.1 It is the umpires' duty to "Determine whether ball runners are available to retrieve the ball at each end if the court has wide out-of-bounds areas or is on a raised stage or similar platform."

Rita

[mick]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It in the officials manual. I just read it this morning. Section 3.1 Pregame. It's one of the umpires' duties.

Rita

Thanks, Rita. Glad you came along.