Too Many "T's"?
 

9.

5 in December.

2 January.

2 so far in February ( 3 games )

I'd rather not call a "T" but it seems to me, I am being put into positions where it is hard to avoid.

Allow me to explain.

I don't recall all 5 from December, but what I do remember is a disrespectful player warned twice and continued. "T"

A coach yelling to incite the crowd, "T"

A coach violating the 20 second time to replace a player. He insisted that he had 30 seconds, not 30. he was wrong. "T"

January - 2 in one game. Coach tossed. 1st quarter visitor down by 10, 10- 0, Coach made a reference to me that I was cheating his team. I told him, we weren't he again, said that we were. I said, "coach, we are calling what we see" He insisted that we were cheating him and his team "T". 4th quarter, a no call by my partner in the lane, I am trail, coach jumps up and yells " YOU CAN'T CALL A FOUL RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE??????" "T" gone.

February- Game 1- coach out of box yelling at my partner ( 20 feet out past the scorers table,) I warn him to get back in the box, he yells at me about the "no call" I give him a call "T "

Tonight- Visitors down in a game that they won by 20 at home. I call a walk, good call, he yells. I call a foul on an attempted block shot, he goes ballistic. I warn him and he continues to yell. I warn him again that one more out burst and he will be sitting. A few plays later, his #23 receives the ball just inside the 3 point line in full stride ( big guy 6'5 or so, Athletic ) I call a walk, he is not put the ball on the floor and shot a lay up. He calls a time out. During the time out he is berating me for "cheating his team" I ask him if he is questioning my integrity. He says "Just stop cheating my team" , I said "coach I don't want to hear that again", He says " Then stop cheating my team" "T".

Am I thin skinned? I don't think so. But 9 "T's" that seems to be a lot.

Why do people agonize over T's? They are a part of the game. Just do your job, call them when needed and you'll live a much less stressful existence.

I think they are good calls. But no one else in my assoication has more than 2 or 3. Just wondering.

My only thought is that you let too many "cheating my team" comments go.

I know and I agree, I really was trying to aviod the "T". If I only had 2 "T's for the season, It would have been a "T" on the first or second time for certain. It was a very good game. 1 point in the end. The shooter for the "T" hit one of 2. It was called with about 4 minutes left in the 4th Q

If you are running into that much unsporting behavior and nobody else has any T's the issue is with your association and not you.

I'm guessing everyone else is too thick skinned and you are the only one TCB.

You T'd a coach over 10 lousy seconds? I'm sure your discussion "do not - do too" was longer.

"Coach, I am confident you're cheating your team much more than I by doing such a lousy job of coaching."

Thin-skinned? Hardly. Your problem is that you take way too much crap. No wonder coaches are testing you. You don't follow-up on your warnings.

Just call the "T"s if they're justified and quit worrying about them. As Dan said, they're just another call.

Btw, if a coach is 20 feet past the scoring table yapping at the officials, that ain't a warning. That's automatic.

Amen, brother. ;)

I don't think you call too many. I think the others in your association must call too few.

From reading your post I wonder if your 9 Ts should actually be 19.

If handled right, there is no "do not, do too." Coach says he has thirty seconds, I say, "Rule change. Give me a sub." Walk away. Sub not there by second horn, WHACK HIM. He's doing it to defy you.

I remember a game from 2002. Coach insisted he had ONE MINUTE to bring in a sub. "Nope, high school rule is 30 seconds." Walked away. No sub by second horn, I would've whacked him. Didn't have to as I got a sub right away.

As for too many technicals, I can't answer that. I've had 2 this season, both on players. I've been on the court when a varsity head coach got one (it's rare when a coach gets one and I'm not doing the calling :) ) and I was center opposite and had no idea why it was called until halftime.

Sounds to me like you're working lower level games, cause we simply don't have varsity coaches that act this badly where I live. If these are varsity level coaches, then there are a lot of officials not TCB, it appears. If these are lower level games, it could be the other officials are intimidated by the coaches and avoid TCB. You don't do that, so that's a good thing.

For 3 years I think I led the area in baseball ejections and coach technicals after moving to the area. Now I have the reputation as a good official (I think, although one can never be too sure) who won't take any crap. That's where you want to be. You want the coaches to see you, recognize you as a competent official, know that you're approachable and will talk to them, but also recognize that if they act up, they're going to get whacked. I haven't whacked a head coach in 3 seasons now. My line hasn't changed a bit, but many schools I go to now, the coaches recognize me and know what they're going to get.

I doubt you are thin-skinned, but you are doing something to cause those reactions from coaches and players. I rarely see players or coaches get T'd up for reacting to one obvious correct call that goes against them. Fair or not, perception is important.

You're worried about 9 T's? I think I had 9 T's within the first 2 weeks!! :D

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Folks get T'ed for violating the 3 P's: personal, profane, or prolonged. No matter how bad my calls are, participants are not thereby justified in violating the 3 P's.

You are 100% correct. However, "bad calls" are what almost always leads to the 3 P's, along with being defensive or overly-aggressive as an official. Body language and tone of voice also have a lot to do with it. How you say somethign to a coach or player is more important than what you say.

Coaches and players rarely blow up unless there has been some series of calls or events where they perceive they are wronged. Unless you want to analyze the causes and attempt to use people skills to minimize them to the greatest possible extent, you'll continue to get those reactions, give a bunch of T's, and avoid maximizing your abilities as an official.

OP stated that he gets put in those positions. That's a victim mentality. He'll find the answers he's looking for when he acknowledges that he puts himself in those situations, and tries to determine how to change his judgment and/or projection to participants in the future.

So, are you saying it's perhaps Terrapins Fan's fault? Is it unacceptable if a coach acts inappropriately after a correct call, but ok if they do the same thing after an incorrect call?

This statement is correct.

However, every player and coach is different and reacts differently to any kind of game management techniques used to diffuse these situations. There are some coaches and players who are going to get whacked no matter what. There are some that will respond well to an official and back down before crossing the line.

Every time I T a coach for unsportsmanlike conduct, I review the situation to see if I could have done anything differently. Most of the time, my answer is no - based on the information I had at the time. One time this year I gave a T to a coach and in reviewing I said something in an attempt to calm that actually aggravated the situation. But it didn't excuse what happened next to necessitate the T.

All of the Ts in the OP were earned - and many of them should have been earned earlier than they were. We have no idea if any other "game management" techniques could have been used...

Oh, and edited to add: sometimes their perception is so far from reality that it doesn't matter. And then there's nothing an official can do but whack them and move on. Ignorance is a tripping point for me... :D

My daughter - 2nd year and younger official asked me why I don't get any "crap" from coaches the way she does. My response was - because I am rarely in conversation with them. The only warning they might get is a non-verbal stop sign - and if offense is such that it doesn't warrant that - it's an immediate WHACK. I told her that she spends way too much time speaking with coaches and trying to justify a call or lack of a call. That is not her job. I wasn't very sympathetic and told her just to do her job.

Yesterday - she called her very first T early in game. She called me to tell me it was on a coach who has been "a pain" for 2 years but after the T he was very polite etc. After the game she was a little anxious when he approached her as she was leaving the floor but all he said to her was it was about time she nailed him. He admitted that he would have kept it up until he found her limit.

Do your job - then forget about it.

Rich - wholeheartedly concur! When I TCB - especially at the lower levels, it's usually because my predecessors have not. Whether that be uniform violations, bench decorum, intentional fouls, court conduct, coaches banter, offensive fouls, etc. A good coach will learn to adjust.....especially if you're right!

After about 5 minutes of a game this weekend I had a coach yell to his players - "stop whining and adjust to the way the refs are calling the game!" Amen brother!

For the record, I gave out three T's all of last yr. I gave out three T's in my first ten games this yr (one coach, two players) and thought I was going down the wrong path too. But, no one has earned one since!

There is no fault, period. He has done nothing wrong. He asked if he was giving too many T's, and I tried to give him something to think about. He has to figure out the answer for himself. If my input doesn't help, no big deal.

Early in my career, I should have given more T's than I did, but I also did a lot of things that caused those situations to occur. Now I am deft enough to manage around those situations, due to better judgment/call selection and understanding the player/coach point of view. So they occur far less frequently, and I rarely have to give T's. I've given 3 this year, all to players. That's about an average year for me. I have very, very few problems with coaches. Maybe I'll change my screen name to CoachWhisperer. :D

Hmm...which is it?

Uhm.... Old School math?

I believe it's referred to in educational circles as "Chaos Theory."

What Dan said - a "T" is just another kind of foul. I've had seasons where I didn't call any, and some where I called a bunch.

Sometimes they just run in streaks. I had a couple early this season (delay of game & hanging on the rim after a missed dunk), then nothing until late January, when I called 7 in a two week period, 5 of those in 3 games over a 3 day period (PIL boys JV Juulie - 'nuff said).

I'm with Lord Byron. That's a complete load of crap.

He is the cause of the result. If he wants a different result, he needs to make a change in something. Or he can make the decision that all of his T's this year were warranted and there is nothing he could have done differently. Either way, there is no fault. We all have to draw our own conclusions. I hope Terrapin Fan at least tries something different. If he doesn't, no big deal.

Nope. Chaos Theory is way more logical and reasonable than what Oracle (and Old School) advocate.

Whatever happened to Old School, anyways? I haven't read one of his third world comments for a long time it feels like....

Ended up having to say good bye. You can get your fix, however, by reading posts from Oracle.

How is <B>he</B> the cause of the coach's actions?

Why isn't <B>the coach</B> responsible for their own actions?

This is how officials that do their job and might hand out 10-20 T's in a year when their average association member has 0-3 question themselves. Hey I have probably had about 10-15 this year and I treat them all like any call. I just blow the whistle and make the signal. The cause of the result is the act that got the T not the official calling the T. Unless hes overjudicious then yeah, and we all have worked with these types of officials, however they dont think about their T's. They also dont advance very far.

So to summarize, stop blaming yourself for doing your job. I actually get more upset when I see officials just let stuff slide because "Bob is just being Bob." or they know the coach or player and make excuses for them. Be professional and do your job. Dont get personal feelings involved in this. We are, afterall, impartial.

Take a breath. They are both responsible. TF is not wrong for giving a T. However, if he had more credibility with what appears to be a lot of the coaches and players he deals with, he would not have as many situations where he has to give T's.

Bottom line: If I blow a call, I will give rope to the folks affected. When I'm honest with them, almost every time the issue is over with no personal comments, and it ends there. If something is a 50/50 call, the same approach yields the same results for me. Being honest and non-defensive with players and coaches works for me. Then when I do have something nailed, I have the credibility to tell them I nailed it, and it stops there.

More priest, less prison warden. That approach works for me. It's not for everyone. TP and others can decide for themselves. I respect everyone's approaches and philosophies.

You know, Old School used to contradict himself within a post.

I'm just saying.

And anyone who buys this line might be interested in the beautiful beachfront property I"ve got for sale cheap in Oklahoma.:rolleyes:

I'm breathing pretty normally, thanks. :)

I don't entirely disagree with your theory that the more an official screws up, the more likely he/she will have coaches and players upset with them.

However, no matter how many times I mess up, it doesn't give a coach or a player the right to cross the line into unsporting behavior. They can disagree with my calls, but they can't accuse me of cheating. They might dislike the fact that I'm too old and slow to get in proper position to make the right calls, but that doesn't give them the right to yell and scream about it.

Justifying a coach or player's bad behavior by blaming it on the official is wrong.

How much?

Oh...never mind.

Exactly.

I agree with you 100%. You are taking my philosophy and extrapolating to an extreme to try and make a point, but we are in violent agreement. My whole point is that there are tools to prevent coaches and players venturing into unsporting behavior. I have found it is much easier to stop a coach from going there than a player, but once a coach gets there it can get ugly. Once anyone gets there, you are correct, you have to deal with it. Virtually all T's I call are when there is physical contact on a dead ball, and every time I have to call that, I always try and figure out if there was any precursor I missed that could have prevented it. That's how I try to get better. :D

So how many "dead ball altercations" do you have? because virtually none of my T's are for that.

I haven't been in the forums that much lately but I see people are still, for some reason, taking Old School's....errrrr, I mean TheOracle's posts seriously. :eek:

Probably 4-5 per year, so every 5-10 games or so. Little shove, little push, stcking a ball in someone's face. Something unnecessary and has the potential to escalate. Have to get those. Usually happens when calling official turns and heads to report.

This is the most "Ts'" I have given out in one year. That was my concern. Now, I work every night 6 nights a week. One week I had 14 games ( some triples and several doubles. I work all levels, but mostly JV and V.

I do believe that the kids and the coaches are being more disrespectful. JMO.

Thanks for all the great advice and opinions.

I tried to work this out and almost cramped up! Is this more Oracle/Old School math?
Congrats to everyone who keeps track of and worries about how many Ts they give out a year. Players, Coaches and game opponents change every year. It would be idiotic for me to think the amount of Ts I call could remain close to the same. One thing that does remain the same is the fact that any coach, player or partner who knows me knows that I don't care about calling a T. By not caring I mean that it will not hurt my feelings one bit to put air in the whistle and form the T with my hands. I don't cause someone to get a T no more than I cause someone to foul or miss a shot.

Wow, I must be an anomoly. :confused:
Been working for 25 months, 295 games, no T's.

Regarding T's for profanity, are there any unofficial guidelines? Is it just the F-bomb, or does G-D and the S-word qualify as well? And does it have to be a loud outburst, or does a kid who, for example, says "s**t" or "damn!" to himself for missing a layup, qualify for a T?

You've either got the greatest number of coaches and players in the history of the game who actually believe in true sportsmanship gathered together in one small geographic area......or you're deaf.:)

Btw, I thought that I read a while ago that you were a rookie with about 60 games under his belt. :confused:

If you're doing NFHS games, any of the FCC's "7 words" should probably qualify. As for "GD" and others, that's going to vary by region. I wouldn't call it, but in some parts of the country that's profanity.

As for GD, I'm particularly annoyed at that one, but generally rule this based on whom it's aimed toward and how loud it's uttered. Same with JC.

Well, I will say that I've been real close a number of times, and had a few of those close calls come this year, my streak would've been broken. I think in my first year I let the coaches complain more because when they did it made me wonder if I got the call wrong (which wreaks havoc on your concentration if you're not careful). Let's face it, it's a confidence issue for us when we're rookies, right?

FWIW, the 295 games includes a lot of kids' tournaments, especially when I was first starting, because I wanted to learn and get comfortable with mechanics & positioning, etc before working school games. I still do a lot of AAU tournaments, etc of all ages--up to HS--as well as some HS leagues. At any rate, my count for official school games is about 100 or so, from MS level up to JV. (Haven't done varsity yet--getting home at 11pm for the extra $5 isn't worth it to me, and I have no ego involved.)

One more bit of clarification: Although I'm a 2-yr rookie I was 48 when I started. Also, I have a fairly calm but firm demeanor, so I may not act as much like a rookie as other younger rookies do. At least, I hope not, since I'm 50 now and I think I do a fairly good and consistent job for both teams. And yes, I've been pretty lucky with coaches; the few situations I've had with coaches I've been able to diffuse. And no player situations at all yet.

All that being said, my fuse has gotten just a bit shorter this year--it's grown shorter in proportion to my gain in confidence as an official. Plus, I've learned some tricks from you guys (the stop sign, not discussing every call) that have helped as well. I just wish our local association had the same sort of mentoring mentality as I've found in here.

So if they're just mad at themselves (and don't yell it out or direct it at a player or official) you give them a pass?

If it's working for you and the game is kept under control, no need to change. It doesn't matter <b>how</b> you get there....just that you <b>do</b> get there.

Having said that, you <b>will</b> be in a situation somewhere down the road where you <b>will</b> have to nail somebody. That's true for all of us. Don't ever think that it's some kind of failure on your part when you do have to "T" somebody up. You're simply reacting to what you run into. It's just another call.

Jmo.....

How about Allah? Buddha? Zeus? Odin? ....Woody?

What do you do if players shout any of those out?:confused:

Automatic ejection.

Agree. Taking His name in vain should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

If I'm the only one who hears it, they're more likely to get a pass. If the kid throws a pass out of bounds and screams "Sh!t!" he's getting the T.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
....Woody?


Woodpeckers are sacred.

I thought those were George Carlin's seven words. . .

I don't know about sacred. I think wood peckers are just scary.

Aren't George and the FCC good buddies?

I work approximately 50-60 games a year. Awarded a coach a "T" last week---first one on a coach in 3 years. Can only remember a couple of player "technicals" during the same 3-year period.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

RE: Control. I've had 2-3 games this year that started getting really chippy in the 2nd quarter, so during halftime I suggested to my partner that we stay on top of it. Before the 3rd started I went to each coach and told them we didn't want an injury or a confrontation so we were going to tighten it up to keep the game under control. They understood, thanked me for letting them know, and then relayed the info to their players. We then backed it up with our whistles and each of the games, though very close, were uneventful. I have no idea if that's one of those "book" things, but that type of communication has worked for me so far.


Thank you; I understand that now a lot better than I did just 3 months ago.

Back in December I had a coach and asst coach constantly chirping and questioning each call. I ignored it then, but if it happened today I'd give them their warning. I did that last week to the coach of a FR girls team who was complaining loudly because they were losing and were on the short end of a 10-3 foul count. During an OB I walked over and told the coach the reason it was 10-3 was because his team was chasing and playing D with their hands instead of their feet. He agreed, but kept complaining. I then told him he'd had his say and needed to quiet down and coach his team. Not only did he not give us any more grief, but his team started playing hard and won the game.

Yep. Where do you think George got them?

Oh, I thought you meant the other Woody.

Mention his name & he'll expect you to take him for a walk.

http://www.trendypuppy.com/collarswags/gypsy-sue.jpg

1)Naw, I was talking about a different dumb animal.

2) I do tricks for a brownpop too.

Particularly if they are "balsa" wood.

Experience, Experience, Experience
 

Experience has a a lot to do with it. When I started officiating twenty-seven years ago, my hair was entirely brown, I didn't know any of the coaches, they didn't know me, and I called a lot of technical fouls.

Today, my hair has as much gray as brown, I've been to at least ten schools in our area over twenty times, I know most of the coaches, and they know me.

I've only had to call two technical fouls this year, both on players. One, flagrant, against a player who slapped another player during the aftermath of a held ball, and the second against a player who threw a ball at an opponent.

I haven't even come close to giving a technical foul to a coach this year, not even a stop sign, and I work about three high school varsity games a week, as well as a few Catholic middle school games every weekend.