How many flops?
 

As the R, I told my crew a few times good job on the no calls. Players were setting up for charges, getting no contact and falling like noodles. As much as I regret it, we had to start calling blocks to clean up the game. What a way to ruin an otherwise beautiful contact with great athletes.

Your thoughts???

You called a block when there was no contact? The Fed rules specifically state that the act to influence an official's decision is a technical foul. Feinting by the defense is exaclty that - trying to influence a decision by the officials. I'd talk to a player the first time it happened - then call a Technical foul after that. They'll stop damn quickly after that.

Thanks for the response, by rule you are right, faking is a technical foul. But a player that does not have the guts to stick around for contact and crashes as soon as his chest hairs are touched does not believe he is faking and will rise from the floor in protest that he was run over. These are varsity level players in a tournament championship game. I just wonder who called their previous contests.

VB is a final? LOL He needs to adapt. Plain and simple. You can help facilitate this.

I hope this player doesn't think the rest of life is like this. :eek:

If the defender has not commited technical foul (for flopping), then he has not committed a personal foul (for blocking) either.

MTD, Sr.

explain

If you have never seen this before, the aftermath generally is two players on the floor. Where the defender DID NOT maintain his legal guarding position by falling before contact and causing the offensive player to trip and fall with him.
Better put----the contact received would not be enough to knock over a 20 lb toddler, let alone a 6'2" 200 lb man.

Explain how he did not maintain a legal guarding position. He went backwards, right, to avoid contact? That's legal.

Flopping to attempt to draw a player control foul has already been explained in this thread. Being a p#%&y doesn't mean the player receives a blocking foul.

atcref -- you cannot be serious -- just how you type I call BS

He fell before contact, but this caused the offensive player to trip and fall? What, exactly, did the offensive player trip over?

My first thought is that you shouldn't be the R because you quite simply don't understand the rules. You can't call a personal foul WITHOUT contact. That's an absolute basic--rule 4-19-1. The appropriate rule is rule 10-3-7(f)--"faking being fouled."

If you have been around for a while, then you should have read the very explicit FED POE issued in the 2004-05 rule book. Here's the relevant explanation:
<b><u>Flopping:</u></b> <i>The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he/she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he/she is screening, when in either case there is <b>no contact or incidental contact</b>. The "actor" falls to the court as though he/she was knocked down by the force of the contact. Those actions are designed to have a foul charged to an opponent- a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A <b>technical foul</b> is charged to the "actor" in all cases."</i>

You had the right idea in telling your crew that they should deal with the flopping. Unfortunately, you picked a way to do it that was completely wrong according to the rules.

Someone who knows the rules?:)

I've seen it (faking a foul) called once, in an Indiana sectional final in 1978.

That T had a lot of staying power---nobody here has faked a foul since.

I have never seen it get called, never called it, never met somebody who called it and until now never heard of it get called...

Do you think that using a completely different ruleset might just have a little bit to do with that?

It is VERY COMMON for the flopper to cause contact with flailing arms and legs extended outside their normal frame...can you even have a normal frame while on the floor?

So to simply say no contact no foul is way outside the reality of the situation.

A better way to see it is some contact, that would not have happened without the flop, that while minimal was caused by a questionable act and is a safety issue for the players in the area and the flopper too.

Years ago I had a boys' H.S. varisty game where Team B had a 6'-08" (B5) center who was a pretty good player. Team B like to play a 2-3 zone defense with the big guy anchoring the middle of the back row. Early in the 1st quarter Team A's 5'-08" (A1) point guard drove the lane, B5 bailed out and fell flat on his back. He looked up at me with the look on his face that said who could that not be a charge. As we went back up the court I told B5 that if he wanted the charge he had to stop being a wuss and stay in there and take the charge like a man. He laughed said I was right and took three charges in the 1st half.

MTD, Sr.

I think I speak for us all when I say "Huh?":D A flopper who commits a foul is no longer a flopper but merely a defender who committed a foul by using poor defensive technique. As for the safety issue because of a questionable act I believe I would need some more information.

If I need to explain the danger a prone player under the basket presents to him/herself and others to you, you probably have no business officiating.

I've called the flop T once, in a little kids YMCA game. Gave him a warning, and his coach, the first time. He grunted and fell backwards 3 feet before contact.

Next chance he had, he grunted and fell backwards 4 feet before contact. I called the T. He stopped doing it.

Today in a boys AAU game, my partner had a great charge call. Big kid driving the lane, jumped pretty high towards a point guard-sized defender who'd been in position since Tuesday. As A1 is in the air, B1 turns sideways to brace himself for the pending train wreck. Partner comes out with a strong PC signal, A Coach is complaining that he turned/flopped. It wasn't a flop, and he never gave up his lgp.

My question to the OP. How was it that B1 gave up his LGP in your play?

A sweet sentiment to be sure, but not one supported by rule. If a player chooses to lie on the floor anywhere on the court, there is no NFHS rule which prohibits him from doing so. If he flops, call a T. If he commits a foul while flopping, call that. But the fact that he winds up on the floor has no bearing on the play.

What does a player on the floor presenting a danger have to do with rules?

I said it presented a danger...newsflash it does...not that it presenting a danger makes it a foul in and of itself. Do try to keep up.:rolleyes:

Men's rec. I had players flop one night. Not only was it obvious, the flopper immediately looked to me and when he didn't get a call, gave me that look I used to get from my son when he was faking and I didn't fall for it.

Didn't happen again. They got back to playing ball.

Rita

Pardon me. I read between the lines to say that you might be influenced to call this a foul with an amount of contact that was not sufficient to make this call if not for the resulting unsafe situation. So if not that, then what was the point of mentioning the safety issue? Just trying to keep up.

Some will have us all believe that judgment and rule application lives in a vacuum and go ape spit over concepts like flopping is a block.

What I was saying was that in reality rarely does a flopper go down without some residual contact. Also in reality most officials have a difficult time with the punishment fitting the crime for a flop...much like it was with elbow swinging and leaving the floor before both became violations...so until the NFHS wises up and makes flopping a common foul or violation, many, and I'll bet in practice, most officials find some contact to punish the flopper for their unsafe and unsporting act.

POssibly yes, but flopping is a Technical foul under fiba rules as well... I am not certain what the NCAA and NFHS rulings are but I think the rule is acctually quite similar.
How ever I do belive there is a diffrent mentality in europe when it comes to flopping in comparison to the us