Homework

[Da Official]

I was reffing a Girls Varsity game last night and the following 2 scenarios took place. My partner called violations but I thought they both were legal plays. After the game I talked to him about the plays and said I would try to get the applicable rules and cases for him.

What rule/case do we have for:

Scenario #1: Player A1 is dribbling ball in front court. She attempts a drop off pass where she slightly taps the ball to another player A2. Unfortunately A1 and A2 or not on the same page and A1 has to retrieve the pass/fumble and continued to dribble. Note she never picked the ball up at any time.

Partner stops play and calls a double dribble (because "she attempted a pass" his words)


Scenario #2: Team A is has a throw-in underneath the basket in the front court. A1 throws a high pass to A2 who jumps in the air and touches the ball but it continues past her into the backcourt. A2 runs into the backcourt to get it. Before A2 touches the ball Coach A says "once you touch it, its backcourt". I am the Trail and run back with A2. A2 then begins to dribble the loose ball. I hold my whistle because I am thinking to myself team control was not established until A2 started dribbling, my partner calls a backcourt violation from the other side of the division line. No one complained but I felt that was not the right call.


I have looked through the Rule and Case this morning and couldn't find anything specific to these....but I'm sure my research was lacking.

Can the brothers help me out?

[zebraman]

If I understand your first scenario correctly, A1 never stopped dribbling so you have no violation. You won't find a case play that exactly addresses it. It's just a dribble that never ceased.

Your second scenario is addressed in case play 4.12.6 (b). No violation because there is no team control on a throw-in and A2's touch did not constitute control.

[mick]

Originally Posted by zebraman

If I understand your first scenario correctly, A1 never stopped dribbling so you have no violation. You won't find a case play that exactly addresses it. It's just a dribble that never ceased.

Your second scenario is addressed in case play 4.12.6 (b). No violation because there is no team control on a throw-in and A2's touch did not constitute control.

One could easily apply:

4.15.4 Situation D (b)
4-15-4

[JS 20]

If you were the trail in scenario 2, and your partner called BC violation on that as the L. I would get together with him, tell him it's your call, it's not a violation and have him change it to an inadvertant whistle and go from there. Then at halftime or after the game I'd have a nice chat w/ him about it.

[mick]

Originally Posted by JS 20

If you were the trail in scenario 2, and your partner called BC violation on that as the L. I would get together with him, tell him it's your call, it's not a violation and have him change it to an inadvertant whistle and go from there. Then at halftime or after the game I'd have a nice chat w/ him about it.

I wouldn't do that unless he asked for help and wanted to be bailed out.
I would be concerned about getting in a prolonged rules discussion in front of God, and everybody, and then looking even more stoopid.
I would do the chat thing, though.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by mick

I wouldn't do that unless he asked for help and wanted to be bailed out.
I would be concerned about getting in a prolonged rules discussion in front of God, and everybody, and then looking even more stoopid.
I would do the chat thing, though.

If I'm T, and my partner calls backcourt from L, and I'm certain he's wrong, I'm going to go get it correct.

And it's not going to be prolonged, it's going to be something along the lines of, "We got that one wrong, there was no team control in the frontcourt, it's my call, we're giving the ball back to A." And I'd leave and inbound the ball.

I'm not going to let my partner call something that is 100% wrong from the wrong position and then not correct it.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Scenario #1: Player A1 is dribbling ball in front court. She attempts a drop off pass where she slightly taps the ball to another player A2. Unfortunately A1 and A2 or not on the same page and A1 has to retrieve the pass/fumble and continued to dribble. Note she never picked the ball up at any time.

Partner stops play and calls a double dribble (because "she attempted a pass" his words)


Scenario #2: Team A is has a throw-in underneath the basket in the front court. A1 throws a high pass to A2 who jumps in the air and touches the ball but it continues past her into the backcourt. A2 runs into the backcourt to get it. Before A2 touches the ball Coach A says "once you touch it, its backcourt". I am the Trail and run back with A2. A2 then begins to dribble the loose ball. I hold my whistle because I am thinking to myself team control was not established until A2 started dribbling, my partner calls a backcourt violation from the other side of the division line. No one complained but I felt that was not the right call.

Can the brothers help me out?

I don't know about the brothers -- you know how men are. But here's a sister who might help.

I'd say neither was a violation, but your first case depends on your definition of "picking the ball up". If she attempted the pass by one-handedly bouncing the ball to her teammate, and then retrieved it in the same one-handed way, it's definitely not a violation. It may or may not be a fumble, but even if it's not a fumble, the dribble never ended, since she did never touched it with two hands, nor palmed/carried.

Second case: no team control in frontcourt, tip doesn't count as team control.