enforcing carrying violations

[utex]

If a player carries the ball in his/her natural dribbling motion, and refuses to make an adjustment, should you continue to make the call, though it could seriously affect the outcome? Thanks

[Mark Dexter]

What do you mean by "refuses?"

If you've been calling the move carrying throughout the game, there is no reason why you should pass at the end of a game. Similarly, if you've been passing, you shouldn't start calling it with 1 minute to go in the 4th quarter.

If it's the first time you've seen it and it's illegal, call it when it occurs.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by utex
If a player carries the ball in his/her natural dribbling motion, and refuses to make an adjustment, should you continue to make the call, though it could seriously affect the outcome? Thanks

Oh no - don't continue to call the violation. After all, why should we enforce the rules if the players don't cooperate? And - don't forget to stop calling that defender for that foul where he hacks the shooter on the arm each time. After all, why continue to call it if it could seriously affect the outcome of the game? We wouldn't want that to happen, would we?

And - oh yeah - after that howler monkey tells you that you suck and you call the T, don't forget to let him keep doing it without penalty, since he refuses to make an adjustment and calling it could seriously affect the outcome of the game.

Do you "get it" now?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
After all, why should we enforce the rules if the players don't cooperate?

Ya know, sometimes I seriously wonder about this one.

Usually after telling someone (for the 20th time) that the clock doesn't stop until the last two minutes. Or explaining to yet another bonehead that we're not using NCAA rules, so he can't stand on the FT block.

[mick]

Originally posted by utex
If a player carries the ball in his/her natural dribbling motion, and refuses to make an adjustment, should you continue to make the call, though it could seriously affect the outcome? Thanks

utex,
You make it sound like you have some doubt in your judgement.
Make sure of your call, get other officials' opinions if you need to enforce your definition/observation, and then call it, everytime, with confidence.
mick

[Bart Tyson]

Why don't you guys just find out where utex lives and go beat him up. utex, i don't think i have ever seen a natural dribbling motion of carrying the ball. Maybe the question you are looking for is, what is "carrying" i.e. double dribble?

[tharbert]

About a decade ago, I remember a veteran official talking to a group of us younger officials about this subject. He described a "carry" movement used often by a player that appears to be a violation but does not create an advantage/disadvantage. This motion seems to be a natural hitch in how the ball is palmed at the top of the dribble. Many times, you will see it in younger ball handlers who allow their hand to slip under and behind the ball while dribbling with no defensive pressure especially while bring the ball down the backcourt. He suggested we younger officials allow the game to continue.

I watched carefully and those same kids who had the "hitch" at the top of the dribble also used it to their advantage when starting a drive against a defender (remember Magic Johnson?). This is a carry or double dribble. After about the third or forth time a violation is called, the coach will make the adjustment if the player can't. You have to call it.

I think mick is spot on! Get it squared away in your head and call it (or not) with confidnece.

[egausch]

Had it happen this weekend. Great game. Many lead changes, etc. Final 5 sec., down by 2. Inbound from the far endline. Ball gets in the hands of my best player. Drives up the floor, heavy defensive pressure. Gets over mid, puts up a long three...Yes it's good!!!.....Tweeeet.... No, he carried. Duhhhh! Didn't dribble any different than the rest of the game and was never called before that. Couldn't believe he made that call. Didn't say a thing however. To good a game to spoil. Chose not to shake his hand instead. I could've B&M about all the travels that weren't called everytime the other team started a dribble after taking two steps. Arrgggggh!!!
EG

[utex]

Guys, let me give you a more detailed explanation. I agree with your judgement. It seems stupid to quit calling a violation just because the player refuses to make an adjustment.
Second, I am not an official, but I am taking an independent study course at Texas on sports officials.
At one game I attended, an official called two carrying violations on a player. The player continued to carry the ball, but the officials quit calling it. After the game I asked the officials why they stopped calling the violation. They said it was not a major violation, and to continually calling it would disrupt the flow of the game. Sounded fishy to me. That's why I'm asking the experts.
Please don't shoot me.

[mick]

Originally posted by utex
... I agree with your judgement. It seems stupid to quit calling a violation just because the player refuses to make an adjustment.
Second, I am not an official, but I am taking an independent study course at Texas on sports officials.

utex,
It could have been worse, but you posted on the proper forum.

I wonder what would have been said if you had asked,"... then why did you call that in the beginning of the game?"
mick

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by utex

At one game I attended, an official called two carrying violations on a player. The player continued to carry the ball, but the officials quit calling it. After the game I asked the officials why they stopped calling the violation. They said it was not a major violation, and to continually calling it would disrupt the flow of the game. Sounded fishy to me. That's why I'm asking the experts.
Please don't shoot me.

We won't, but if I see those so-called officials, I might just shoot them. Gee, someone in Texas getting shot. What are the odds?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick

utex,
It could have been worse, but you posted on the proper forum.

I wonder what would have been said if you had asked,"... then why did you call that in the beginning of the game?"
mick

You know what he would have said. "To establish the call
so I don't get too much grief if I need to call it at the
end of the game."

[daves]

I had a varsity boys game last week and I called a carry violation 3 times on the same guy in a game. I probably could have called it more. The player did not adjust and I kept calling it the same from start to finish. One of the calls was in the 4th quarter at a critical juncture of the game wiping away a basket. That last one I called could have even been called a double dribble because he pinned the ball against his thigh and dribbled again. Clear violation in my book.

[ChuckElias]

My first year as a JV college official, I did a JV game at Coast Guard. I called 4 carries and the visiting coach was starting to get frustrated with me. He goes to my partner to complain about it.

My partner's reply was, "Coach, the NCAA just sent out a bulletin to call the carry. He's just the only one that read it."

Funny thing was, he was probably right.

Chuck

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by daves
I had a varsity boys game last week and I called a carry violation 3 times on the same guy in a game. I probably could have called it more. The player did not adjust and I kept calling it the same from start to finish. One of the calls was in the 4th quarter at a critical juncture of the game wiping away a basket. That last one I called could have even been called a double dribble because he pinned the ball against his thigh and dribbled again. Clear violation in my book.

Not to be nit-picky, but all carrying violations are double dribbles.