If a player carries the ball in his/her natural dribbling motion, and refuses to make an adjustment, should you continue to make the call, though it could seriously affect the outcome? Thanks

What do you mean by "refuses?"

If you've been calling the move carrying throughout the game, there is no reason why you should pass at the end of a game. Similarly, if you've been passing, you shouldn't start calling it with 1 minute to go in the 4th quarter.

If it's the first time you've seen it and it's illegal, call it when it occurs.

Oh no - don't continue to call the violation. After all, why should we enforce the rules if the players don't cooperate? And - don't forget to stop calling that defender for that foul where he hacks the shooter on the arm each time. After all, why continue to call it if it could seriously affect the outcome of the game? We wouldn't want that to happen, would we?

And - oh yeah - after that howler monkey tells you that you suck and you call the T, don't forget to let him keep doing it without penalty, since he refuses to make an adjustment and calling it could seriously affect the outcome of the game.

Do you "get it" now?

Ya know, sometimes I seriously wonder about this one.

Usually after telling someone (for the 20th time) that the clock doesn't stop until the last two minutes. Or explaining to yet another bonehead that we're not using NCAA rules, so he can't stand on the FT block.

utex,
You make it sound like you have some doubt in your judgement.
Make sure of your call, get other officials' opinions if you need to enforce your definition/observation, and then call it, everytime, with confidence.
mick

Why don't you guys just find out where utex lives and go beat him up. :) utex, i don't think i have ever seen a natural dribbling motion of carrying the ball. Maybe the question you are looking for is, what is "carrying" i.e. double dribble?

About a decade ago, I remember a veteran official talking to a group of us younger officials about this subject. He described a "carry" movement used often by a player that appears to be a violation but does not create an advantage/disadvantage. This motion seems to be a natural hitch in how the ball is palmed at the top of the dribble. Many times, you will see it in younger ball handlers who allow their hand to slip under and behind the ball while dribbling with no defensive pressure especially while bring the ball down the backcourt. He suggested we younger officials allow the game to continue.

I watched carefully and those same kids who had the "hitch" at the top of the dribble also used it to their advantage when starting a drive against a defender (remember Magic Johnson?). This is a carry or double dribble. After about the third or forth time a violation is called, the coach will make the adjustment if the player can't. You have to call it.

I think mick is spot on! Get it squared away in your head and call it (or not) with confidnece.

Funny you should mention it!!
 

Had it happen this weekend. Great game. Many lead changes, etc. Final 5 sec., down by 2. Inbound from the far endline. Ball gets in the hands of my best player. Drives up the floor, heavy defensive pressure. Gets over mid, puts up a long three...Yes it's good!!!.....Tweeeet.... No, he carried. Duhhhh! Didn't dribble any different than the rest of the game and was never called before that. Couldn't believe he made that call. Didn't say a thing however. To good a game to spoil. Chose not to shake his hand instead. I could've B&M about all the travels that weren't called everytime the other team started a dribble after taking two steps. Arrgggggh!!!
EG

Guys, let me give you a more detailed explanation. I agree with your judgement. It seems stupid to quit calling a violation just because the player refuses to make an adjustment.
Second, I am not an official, but I am taking an independent study course at Texas on sports officials.
At one game I attended, an official called two carrying violations on a player. The player continued to carry the ball, but the officials quit calling it. After the game I asked the officials why they stopped calling the violation. They said it was not a major violation, and to continually calling it would disrupt the flow of the game. Sounded fishy to me. That's why I'm asking the experts.
Please don't shoot me.

utex,
It could have been worse, but you posted on the proper forum.

I wonder what would have been said if you had asked,"... then why did you call that in the beginning of the game?" :)
mick

We won't, but if I see those so-called officials, I might just shoot them. Gee, someone in Texas getting shot. What are the odds? ;)

You know what he would have said. "To establish the call
so I don't get too much grief if I need to call it at the
end of the game."

I had a varsity boys game last week and I called a carry violation 3 times on the same guy in a game. I probably could have called it more. The player did not adjust and I kept calling it the same from start to finish. One of the calls was in the 4th quarter at a critical juncture of the game wiping away a basket. That last one I called could have even been called a double dribble because he pinned the ball against his thigh and dribbled again. Clear violation in my book.

My first year as a JV college official, I did a JV game at Coast Guard. I called 4 carries and the visiting coach was starting to get frustrated with me. He goes to my partner to complain about it.

My partner's reply was, "Coach, the NCAA just sent out a bulletin to call the carry. He's just the only one that read it."

Funny thing was, he was probably right.

Chuck

Not to be nit-picky, but all carrying violations are double dribbles.

The CGA, huh? Now you're reachin' a bit too far into my territory! I might have to start doing Patriot League games if you keep this up . . .

I thought they were illegal dribbles or palming.

I had a veteran partner signal a double dribble on a player driving to the hoop, inside the key. It looked terrible and he knew it. We talked about it at half time and my partner stated that the player palmed or "carried" the ball and that's the only signal he could come up with. I told him it was a proper mechanic to us the "over and back" signal or "palming" signal (one in the same) to show the palming violation.

I think the double dribble mechanic is outdated and not one that I will use.

RD

The "carry" mechanic was in the book for a number of years, then removed a couple of years ago (for one year, iirc). It was added back in last(?) year.

Yes, and you use the signal for palming/carrying the ball.

However, it is a violation because the dribble ends when the ball is palmed/carried - when the ball is pushed back to the floor - violation. (We just use the carry signal for the benefit of howler monkeys everywhere.)

If you look at rule nine, there is no mention of palming or carrying - just the double dribble prohibition and exceptions.

And another coach's response...
 

Another dialogue that ensued after I called a carry last weekend:

Coach: "Carry? That hasn't been called all year!"
Me: "Coach, I haven't officiated your team before tonight."
Coach: "This isn't the seventies. They made that call in the seventies."
Me (smirking): "Coach, is 'carrying' still in the book?"
Coach (looking ticked): "That's stupid! Don't say stupid things like that!"
Me (thinking to myself): "Coach, you should hear yourself talking!"

Re: And another coach's response...
 

Actually, it's not.

See my previous post.