referees double oops

[number 26]

nor cal high school varsity boys game last night. 4th quarter close game. home team attempts 3. hits rim. bounces straight up. obviously, no doubt about it, hits connecting wire above backboard. of course, right into hoop. refs signal 3 - good. visiting coach, fans agitated, angry, etc... home fans giggly... game continues with the crowd abuzz. a foul is called 10 seconds later. coach continues his mini rant to refs. naturally, to no avail.
i'm watching the game, as luck would have it, with two gentleman who had refereed the freshman game a few hours earlier. we're standing in the corner near the basket. we all kinda guffawed at the refs error. at the moment when it was apparent the refs would allow the basket, i told them if i'm the victimized coach, i call time out as my team brings the ball up court past half court. calmly, hoping i can be calm, go to the refs and ask for a second opinion from the scorers table or anyone, for that matter, to overrule the three.
my two ref buds both agreed that was a good course of action. but, even that might not work.
question for the board
what can the coach do in this situation to get justice?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by number 26
what can the coach do in this situation to get justice?

Who cares? He's a howler monkey and this is basketball. As the Fabulous Sports Babe says, "Score more points."

I bet he didn't complain when the refs "missed" calling fouls against his players.

My comment: You want "justice" - call Judge Judy.

[daves]

No second opinions from the table. The official's decision stands. The timer has no authority to overrule the call. If the trail official who is responsible for that call misses it or sees it differently, too bad. You wouldn't ask the scorer for a second opinion on missed fouls or violations. The only time you would consult the timers if there was a question over whether a shot was released before the buzzer sounds.

In our area we have several baskets with a cable system for supporting the basket as you describe. In those gyms I always pregame with my partner on the possibility of the ball bouncing high and hitting the cable. There have been times when the ball hitting the rim caused the backboard and the cable to vibrate. It sometimes appears in those situations that the ball hit the cable when it actually didn't. Unless it is absolutely obvious, the way that I determine whether the ball hit the cable is if the cable moves and the rotation of the ball changes.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by daves
No second opinions from the table. The official's decision stands.

No second opinions? As in, you never, ever, consult the table?

I know that this is a situation where you wouldn't, but I've had a few cases in HS varsity where the refs have checked with the table (or we've called them over) about whether a shot went in or not on a shooting foul.

Of course, that's probably just because the refs knew the scorer and me.

[thomasanderson]

At times, this is not an easy call. In this situation, the ball went straight up and came straight down after hitting the wire. The trail official might not have had a good angle to determine if the ball hit the wire or his attention could have been diverted by the actions of the players. Furthermore, I would have issues with the refs/spectators who GUFFAWED at the refs error. Refs who are spectators should not display any emotion or offer any comments regarding the officials judgement. Your ref buds should know that only the officials on the floor can change the ruling in this situation

[RX Ref]

And we can't always see everything. I have no problem telling a coach I didn't see something, or that I did see it and just couldn't blow my whistle until the play was over. A coach very rarely has a problem with this....

[daves]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

No second opinions? As in, you never, ever, consult the table?

I know that this is a situation where you wouldn't, but I've had a few cases in HS varsity where the refs have checked with the table (or we've called them over) about whether a shot went in or not on a shooting foul.

Of course, that's probably just because the refs knew the scorer and me.

I do consult with the scorer's table but not in the situation that was mentioned. I check with them to double check on foul situation pertaining to the bonus. I check with them to clarify the AP arrow. I check with them between quarters to make sure the book matches the scoreboard, etc. etc. Nobody but the trail official on that play has coverage on that call. If the lead sees it hit(why is he looking up?) then he may confer with his partner and get it straightened out.

[number 26]

thanks gang
a few replies:
ref buddies only commented to me and each other "looks like the basket will count" that kinda thing. did not in any way show visible emotion detectable by other observers. my bad for poor phrasing.
my purpose for the question is i'm from the get it right at any just about any cost camp.
for example, and since you don't know me, you'll just have to trust me, if the opposing coach had come to the scorers table etc to question the basket, and i was the lucky coach to have received the illegal 3, i would have instructed the scorers table to remove the basket. why would i do it? it's called honesty and it's called karma points. always, without exception, honesty pays in the long run.
you might say i picked this up from bjorn borg during his 5 year wimbledon run '76 - '80. somewhere in there, key point was awarded to borg errantly on an out ball on borg's baseline. borg went to the chair and said point belonged to his opponent not him cause the ball hit the line. chair obliged and gave the point to borg's stunned opponent.
that's the way i play. that's the way i coach.
thanks all for your time.

[Gochron]

It's US vs. them. If we don't see it we can't call it. Had a situation where A1 shooting a three from the corner, I was lead, the ball hits the side of the backboard and goes out of bounds. I point to B's direction. The crowd calls for a touch by B1. I ask my partner, he says no. So it goes, I admit I may have been to close to the action and was focused on the body, not the extention of the arm. It defused the coach. I'll get this game sooner or later.

[Bart Tyson]

number 26, its not a question of honesty. And we can't referee with the get it right at almost any cost.

[devdog69]

Nice to see this attitude at least once in awhile, it is so rare in this day and age. Similar to the situation I had, where I called a foul on B, A was in double bonus and as we are lining up to shoot the girl says "but, she didn't even touch me", I just smiled at her and said "thanks, now go shoot your free throws". As for the situation, I agree with most of the guys, unfortunately we can't call what we don't see, even if every other soul in the place saw it.

Originally posted by number 26
thanks gang
a few replies:
ref buddies only commented to me and each other "looks like the basket will count" that kinda thing. did not in any way show visible emotion detectable by other observers. my bad for poor phrasing.
my purpose for the question is i'm from the get it right at any just about any cost camp.
for example, and since you don't know me, you'll just have to trust me, if the opposing coach had come to the scorers table etc to question the basket, and i was the lucky coach to have received the illegal 3, i would have instructed the scorers table to remove the basket. why would i do it? it's called honesty and it's called karma points. always, without exception, honesty pays in the long run.
you might say i picked this up from bjorn borg during his 5 year wimbledon run '76 - '80. somewhere in there, key point was awarded to borg errantly on an out ball on borg's baseline. borg went to the chair and said point belonged to his opponent not him cause the ball hit the line. chair obliged and gave the point to borg's stunned opponent.
that's the way i play. that's the way i coach.
thanks all for your time.