heres one really tough one

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

The reason 9.1.2 SIT.A isn't applicable is because that is dealing with a delay after a TO. There was no TO in the OP.

Agreed. There is a difference between a delay situation and a refusal to put the players in their spots...one gets you a warning as per 9.1.2, and the other gets you rung up as per 10.1.5!

[Hard]

One more attempt at justification:

The case book 9.1.2 sitA is for a delay following T.O., but is in reference to the rule 9-1-2 and the penalties for violation of 9-1-2. That rule and the penalties for violation do not reference any conditions as to whether it is after a T.O. or after a foul. It seems that if the defense's coach wants to buy a few seconds with a guaranteed-made free-throw, the rule doesn't say you have to T him/her.

I still think, in reading both these situations and Fritz's account, that Fritz got it right - or at least he can say (based on the readings) that he didn't get it wrong. Am I just being thick, or is there some room for judgement?

[BillyMac]

Does this situation change depending on if the free throws are immediately after the foul, as described in the original post, or if the free throws follow a time out?

Edit: Sorry for the duplication. I didn't fully read Hard's post, but I'm still curious about the two situations.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Does this situation change depending on if the free throws are immediately after the foul, as described in the original post, or if the free throws follow a time out?

yes it does -- one a delay for failure to return to the court after a timeout -- the other is a Technical foul for failure to occupy the bottom 2 spaces.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Hard

Am I just being thick, or is there some room for judgement?

The former.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Agreed. There is a difference between a delay situation and a refusal to put the players in their spots...one gets you a warning as per 9.1.2, and the other gets you rung up as per 10.1.5!

Yup. You use the resumption of play procedure after a TO or intermission. At all other times, you just tell 'em to get ready. If they don't listen to you...whack.

[Rodical]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. You use the resumption of play procedure after a TO or intermission. At all other times, you just tell 'em to get ready. If they don't listen to you...whack.

The case book sit 10-1-5c does stipulate that "The warning is recorded by the scorer and reported to the head coach", so that should be done before assessing the Technical foul. Right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rodical

The case book sit 10-1-5c does stipulate that "The warning is recorded by the scorer and reported to the head coach", so that should be done before assessing the Technical foul. Right?

You're referencing case book play 10.1.5SitC(a) which involves players huddling in the lane. If the huddle delays the FT's, you do record a warning in the scorebook.

We're discussing a play where the defensive players are at their bench and thus are not occupying the bottom two spaces. Iow, it's a different situation entirely. This situation is covered under case book play 10.1.5SitC(b); there's no formal scorebook warning involved. It's fill the spots immediately or get a "T".

Apples and oranges.

The different situations and how to handle each one can get confusing. The only option is to get into the books and memorize how to handle each one.