heres one really tough one

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by deecee

Happened in a game I did about a month ago.

A1 drives to the lane and is fouled in the act of shooting. 2 shots coming up.

Defensive coach calls all 5 of his players to the bench for a chat -- their bench is opposite side of court where the foul shots will be shot. I am opposite side of bench and tell the coach he needs to leave 2 in the lane for the bottom 2 spots. Coach says no he doesn't. I repeat that he has to have the bottom 2 spaces occupied, to which he responds that on the first of 2 they dont have to the spots occupied. By now 4 kids are by bench and 1 is kind of wavering as to who to listen to, me or coach. Coach tells 5th kid to get to huddle and I tell the coach that he needs to send out 2 right now and he ignores me.

What do you do?

You directed him to his team's duty and he refused. Issue the T. Like bob said, try to prevent the T, but if wants to play with fire, burn his butt to the chair.

[deecee]

I issued the T -- then after we shot the 2 shots for the shooting foul and the T i went over to him and explained him the free throw lane rule. He appologized and we moved on.

However my feedback so far from other officials I have run this by -- has been 100% in favor of these 2 options.

1) Just start the free throws and call a lane violation on a miss
2) delay of game warning

Both of which I have argued they are not supported by the rulebook. And I had mentioned to the coach before the T that they had to occupy the bottom 2 spaces but his mind was made up that they didnt have to. To me the only way for him to have learned the rule was to T him up here. the leve was Boys JV and the coach was fine through the whole tournament and he was fine after the T so wasnt a big deal.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by deecee

I issued the T -- then after we shot the 2 shots for the shooting foul and the T i went over to him and explained him the free throw lane rule. He appologized and we moved on.

However my feedback so far from other officials I have run this by -- has been 100% in favor of these 2 options.

1) Just start the free throws and call a lane violation on a miss
2) delay of game warning

Both of which I have argued they are not supported by the rulebook. And I had mentioned to the coach before the T that they had to occupy the bottom 2 spaces but his mind was made up that they didnt have to. To me the only way for him to have learned the rule was to T him up here. the leve was Boys JV and the coach was fine through the whole tournament and he was fine after the T so wasnt a big deal.

Me: "Coach, I'm telling you what I need from you and your players."
Coach: "I don't think you are right, I'm not giving it to you"
Me: Whack.

Ironically, since we would be clearing the lane to shoot the original FT's, he could have his players over for a chat.... if he can keep his focus!

But, riddle me this... If I now clear the lane for the original two shots, plus the technical foul shots.... the players need to be at mid court. If we are in the first half, with offending coach at the end where the FT's are being attempted, he is cut off from his players, right? No way he can caucus with them..

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

But, riddle me this... If I now clear the lane for the original two shots, plus the technical foul shots.... the players need to be at mid court. If we are in the first half, with offending coach at the end where the FT's are being attempted, he is cut off from his players, right? No way he can caucus with them..

You do have a evil streak in you, I like that

Let him talk to his players, just make sure they are all outside the FT restrictions area.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You do have a evil streak in you, I like that

Let him talk to his players, just make sure they are all outside the FT restrictions area.

And that he is seated while speaking with them.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And that he is seated while speaking with them.

The technical for not occupying the lane spaces would be a team technical and not charged indirectly to the head coach, wouldn't it? Therefore, he'd still be able to stand to talk to his team?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The technical for not occupying the lane spaces would be a team technical and not charged indirectly to the head coach, wouldn't it? Therefore, he'd still be able to stand to talk to his team?

Nevada?

Yoohoo, Nevada?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

Me: "Coach, I'm telling you what I need from you and your players."
Coach: "I don't think you are right, I'm not giving it to you"
Me: Whack.

Ironically, since we would be clearing the lane to shoot the original FT's, he could have his players over for a chat.... if he can keep his focus!

But, riddle me this... If I now clear the lane for the original two shots, plus the technical foul shots.... the players need to be at mid court. If we are in the first half, with offending coach at the end where the FT's are being attempted, he is cut off from his players, right? No way he can caucus with them..

That's not correct. They merely need to adhere to the restrictions for players NOT in marked lane spaces. There is no rule that requires them to be anywhere else.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

But, riddle me this... If I now clear the lane for the original two shots, plus the technical foul shots.... the players need to be at mid court. If we are in the first half, with offending coach at the end where the FT's are being attempted, he is cut off from his players, right? No way he can caucus with them..

A common misconception. The players need to be beyond the 3-point line and beyond the free throw line extended -- all the places they are allowed if they are not in a marked lane space.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

A common misconception. The players need to be beyond the 3-point line and beyond the free throw line extended -- all the places they are allowed if they are not in a marked lane space.

... my edurcation continues!

So, while he is seated, coach could caucus with his players (who would need to be on the court above FT line extended and outside of 3-point line) during the 2 tries for the foul, and the 2 tries for the technical.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

... my edurcation continues!

So, while he is seated, coach could caucus with his players (who would need to be on the court above FT line extended and outside of 3-point line) during the 2 tries for the foul, and the 2 tries for the technical.

Yes...as long as the players remain on the court.

[Fritz]

I appreciate Hard's support and interpretation, but after reviewing my case book and rules last night, I agree with other comments that my partner and I applies the "delay after TO" procedure instead of, as in our case, the coach simply refused to put his players on the court to begin play.

Live and learn......

[daveg144]

I don't believe the coach needs to be seated during the shooting of the technical free throws while talking to his players. I don't have my rule book with me, but I think he can stand "during" the technical. Of course, he needs his seatbelt when play resumes.