Tales from a 1st Year: Dumbass
 

Girls Freshman game. I'm lead. Players A1 and B1 fighting for a rebound. They bring it down. I blow Held Ball. Just after whistle B1 pushes A1 pretty hard (coming out of their death grip). I blow whistle a 2nd time for push on B1.

I go to my veteran partner. "Partner I have a jump ball and then a push on B1. He kind of scratches his whiskers like I had asked him who played 3rd base for the '67 Detroit Tigers.

We end up reversing the arrow and have a personal foul on B1. Ball given to Team A for inbounds.

I know in the back of my head that I've screwed this up. Of course no one in the gym for this freshman girls game knows any better. It takes about 2 minutes for me to realize what we should have done.

At least I went to my partner and we caucused (unlike another recent play I kicked).

I hope I don't have to kick each call in a "new" situation once in order to learn them enough to respond properly immediately in the future.

Been there, done that.

I find many times I am harder on myself, knowing I didn't make a proper call or use a proper signal, file it, and discuss it with my partner later.

The fact that no one in the gym ,except maybe your partner, (if they in fact know) knows you did wrong is some small concellation to me as I gain more experience. Although, that don't make it right!

So what do you think you should have done for the sake of discussion?

The same guy who played third base for the 1968 World Series Champions Detroit Tigers, Don Wert.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/doh2.gif
Don't worry, we're here to help make sure that doesn't happen. Just keep reading this forum. ;)

Well, I don't think that we need to incarcerate him for his mistake. :D

Well, once I blow the whistle...
 

.... for the held ball, the ball is dead. During a dead ball, contact between players is either to be ignored, or .... I believe.... that we would have had an intentional technical foul on B1.

Reverse arrow for held ball.
Team A shoots 2 with lane cleared.
Team A ball at the division line.

Now, that is what I realized after two minutes, but before putting my a$$ on the line here I did verify.;)

I agree
 

This forum is great for new guys like me and others. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!:D

The intentional T wipes out the held ball under HS & ncaa mens rules so don't touch the arrow. Not sure what ncaa w do, I believe it's POI. If that's the case then you shoot the FTs then go to the held ball throw-in. In any case do not reverse the arrow until the throw-in is completed.

The contact is ignored unless it's intentional or flagrant, and then it's an IT or FT foul.

The arrow isn't reversed until the AP throw-in ends. Since there won't be an AP throw-in, the arrow stays the same.

As I read the play, I'd go with the held ball and just admonish B1 to stop play when the whistle blows (but you were there and I wasn't and only you can know whether the contact meets the definition of intentional).

I agree that Don Wert is the correct answer to the real question posed. ;)

Are you sure that the arrow should be reversed?

Well now remember, I'm just a dumb old coach...

But...

If you called the T (I think the only type of foul possible during a dead ball, right), why would you change the arrow since it was never used to determine possession?

The only thing I don't think is right here is the changing of the arrow. Although you called a held ball, you never used the AP procedure so the arrow would not change. Remember, the arrow only changes once the AP throw-in is completed or the throwing in team violates.

I do agree though that the push was dead ball contact and either had to be considered incidental or you have to go with the T.

edited to add: WOW 4 posts all saying the same thing at the same time..... And they say we refs can't agree on things...

Dan's right. Here's the correct NFHS procedure. Since there is no AP throw-in there is no reason to reverse the arrow.

word. wort. wert!
 

Wow, multiple responses in the few minutes that it took me to craft a post!

It kind of looks like we're all jumping on the poor guy, but I'm sure that's not the case. Sometimes the posts just come fast and furious. ;)

So CA, how does that @ss which you put on the line feel after the beating it just took? :D