Q From 1st Year: Scrubs are comin' in the game.
 

How about this....

JV or Freshman level (this is all I have done)
Game is pretty much decided (15 to 20 point lead, 3 or 4 minutes to go)

Into the game come a fresh crop of gangly youths, who are clearly not the top players on either of the respective teams.

My approach is to let these guys play. I am going to call fouls, and nothing is going to get out of hand, but my approach would be to not be as stringent on travelling, illegal dribble, etc in an effort to have the game flow and let these players have a chance to get shots and score some points -- make some plays.

Again, these are Freshman/JV games. Is this a common approach? What are the philosophical issues here? "Travel in the first period is a travel in the fourth period" takes a backseat to letting the kids play.

Thoughts?

I have no problem with this in the scenario you describe and I would hope that the coaches understand what you are doing...that said you still have to get the obvious stuff and as you stated you have to get the fouls, but letting a shuffle go here or there isn't hurting anything...

Just call the game and quit trying to force your own personal ideas of the way that things ought to be onto the participants.

There is nowayinhell a first year official should even be thinking about things like this.

There are 2 schools on this.

1. The losing team has given up, the winners have declared victory, let's leep it under control but not prolong this any more than necessary (what you describe).

2. Every player on the floor deserves their time. The scrubs would like to show what they can do and maybe get some more time. The coaches want to see if there are any diamonds at the end of the bench to work with. Ref the game to the end, regardless.

As a first year guy with questions i would say you should use #2. Blow your whistle to the bitter end. At the very least you never know who's in the stands watching you, so do your best always. Also,, you never know when the losing team will suddenly come back and make a game out of it. Then what? You go back to how you called it before? Not very consistent.

As you develop you'll get a better feel for how to incorporate reffing the scoreboard into your game. That's not what you need to worry about right now IMO.

If you are going to slightly adjust your tipping point for calling the eensy-teensy violation things, you do it on the basis that you are watching more closely for contact and don't see the ETVT's. You watch more closely for contact because kids at this level are less likely to play cleanly, and less likely to play through. You don't necessarily call it tighter, just pay more attention. "Let 'em play" is blue language in my dictionary. "Watching closely for illegal A/D" is good game management. It's all in the verbiage.

Other good points made so far about working til the end for the sake of your own practice. It is true that this IS a good time for you to work on your own recognition with things like travels, other violations b/c there is a good chance that you will see a few of them...but if you are comfortable with your own abilities in this regard, then loosening up a bit on these violations isn't a terrible thing in this situation IMO...

Why do you think you're doing anyone any favors by not calling violations? At the high school level, if these kids have any hope of getting more playing time, they have to be able to play the game. Not calling traveling, illegal dribble, etc. is not helping them get better. At any level in high school, you should call the games consistently, start to finish, for their sake as well as your own.

I think there are many that feel "loosen up on the calls" means the same as "let's relax and not call as much". Think of it from a player's perspective - just because the game's decided do you run your offensive sets a little slower? Do you make your cuts a little less sharp? Do you decide not to play hard anymore, because, after all, the game's over? I would think not. And that's the same attitude we need to take as officials. If anything, I've found because the talent level has lowered somewhat the game becomes a little harder to officiate. Therefore we need to be just as sharp, if not more so, than at the beginning. So, call it the same.

<font size=1>Psst...hey, Dan, do you understand what ca_rumperee means by this? Just checkin'. </font size>

:p :D

This is nonsense. It shows a first year official has some awareness of how the game should be worked.

Just keep in mind that a 15 point lead with 3 minutes left CAN be overcome. However, if the losing team's coach has emptied the bench, then you are likely safe. Get all the felonies and serious misdemeanors and the calls that HAVE to be made (obvious hacks, falling down with the ball, etc.), and be very judicious on the rest. This translates to protecting the shooter, getting the other fouls you need to get, but unless he uses a clearly illegal move to get around a defender (palming, traveling, etc.) and gains a big advantage, we're probably going to let that go.

I will say it depends on your circumstances. If you've had a good game with no real problems, doing this is safe. If you've had problems, you have to be aware of control first hand. As long as you keep control of the game, you should be fine.

Is this different than your way of thinking in the first half? Is there a call you would make in the first half that you wouldn't make at this point in the game? If so, why?

A voice of reason, finally.

Ok, then I'll ask you the same questions I asked Aggie:

Is this different than your way of thinking in the first half? Is there a call you would make in the first half that you wouldn't make at this point in the game? If so, why?

Whenever you change the way you call the game based on who is on the floor and/or how much time is left you have reached a slippery-slope.

Our job is to fairly judge the game...period. When we start bending what we call based on game situations instead of what is happening we stop reacting to what is happening and start imposing ourselves into the game.

Our job is to call the game consistently & fairly from beginning to end. It's absurd to change the way we are calling late in the game just because some players have a problem - maybe they should work harder at raising their skill level. Every player that enters that game must be held to the same standard.

I guess it all depends on how you look at it. You're obviously more experienced, but you also obviously don't have a clue either on how to call a game imo.

Forget about me. There's some very sharp officials in this thread that completely disagree with your philosophy. Officials that make me stop and think when they disagree with me about something. Think about it. Or not(shrug).

Will a first year official be able to dial it down and up at will and not have something bad happen? That's the question.

Hi guys,
 

I've been away all day and unable to respond.

here is my point of view. Right now I'm doing games ranging from 3rd and 4th grade kids, 7th & 8th grade cyo, and high school freshmen and jv boys and girls.

Now, I can tell you that I am not going to call the 4th graders game the same as the JV Boys game, unless you consider that I will call all of the lines and will work to find the level of play at which we can have a flowing basketball game. At each and every level I will call advantage/disadvantage. Period

Now, the scrubs come in, maybe the trailing coach capitulating by bringing his in first. While there is a chance ("so you're saying there's a chance!") that the trailing team can mount a comeback, you basically have 10 kids on the floor from the ends of their respective benches. I'm suggesting making a move from the level that the game has been called to that point, to maybe the level of an 8th grade cyo game.

Maybe I don't get the kid for moving his pivot foot while not being closely defended whilst 30 feet from the basket.

Does all that make sense?

It might make sense to you. Personally, I have never met a first year official yet that has a clue what advantage/disadvantage really means, let alone how to apply it. Be that as it may however......

A whole bunch of very experienced officials have given you some very good advice....advice that you have chosen to ignore.

Soooooo.....good luck. Have a good career.

I have no problem with calling different levels of games differently. Of course we call a 4th grade game much differently that a HS varsity contest.

But I'm still not sure I follow the reason for changing how a game is called, within the same game. How do players know how to adjust? What if a team only has 8 or 9 total players? That means some of them have been in the game before, so they've played under one set of guidlines, but at the end of the game they're playing under a different set of guidelines. What about the players at the end of the bench that have been watching all game, and seen how the game is called, only to now enter the game and play under a different set of guidelines? Is that fair to the players?

What plays do you call early, but ignore late? Do you have a list that you go over with your partners in the pre-game? Are you saying you call a travel on the kid that moves his pivot foot 30 ft. from the basket at the beginning of the game, but you don't call it later?

To clarify...
 

My previous post was to clarify my initial post, not to throw down a gauntlet and say "I have my mind made up". I was trying to clarify my position going into this thread.

I haven't chosen to ignore ANYTHING! I'm looking for feedback and there has been a whole gamut of responses. My assumption is that all are very good officials.

As to whether a first year can know advantage/disadvantage... I'll bet you its a scenario where if you had 5 refs... one who was a 20 year vet, one who was a 10 year vet, one who was 5, and one who was 3 year and one who was 1 year...

You could go down the line...
3 year, "I know now that I didn't know sh!t about A/D when I was a 1 year"
5 year, "Oh yeah? I know now that I didn't know sh!t about A/D when I was a 3 year"
10 year, "Oh yeah? I know now that I didn't know sh!t about A/D when I was 5 year"
20 year, "Oh yeah? I know now that I didn't know sh!t about A/D when I was 10 year"

so, I may have no clue (and I will be the first to admit that to you), but I have to do my best to judge that in real time on the court.

Word.

There are newer officials that have a natural feel for the game and there are 20 year vets without a clue.

I think what JR, in his usually surly way, is trying to tell you and the advise I'd give you is this:

As a first year you have too much on your plate to be concerning yourself with "game handling" philosophies. Call your game and call it the same start to finish.

Now obviously if you are working the little kids in the exposure to the game, wind-up toy games you'd adjust what is or isn't called...once it reaches competitive level, regardless of age, we need to call it for real.

You're not saying that you've got your mind made up, eh?

Got it.

Sorry that I wasted your time.

Vanilla Ice just called. He wants his lame-@ss '80s catchphrase back. :p

http://www.burningman.com/environmen...anilla_ice.jpg

To the 'scrubs' who have just entered the game, it is the most important game going on at the moment. Maybe a kid gets fouled while in the bonus and you let it go because it was not too bad of a foul and it had no bearing on the game. But if a frosh kid is in there, he may not play at the next level, he may only have a few chances in the season to score a point or two, he may also be busting his butt in practice looking for playing time and if you change things up you are doing a great dis-service.

PLUS, if you are looking to become more consistent in game calling, mechanics, etc, what better time than the situation you described to 'work on stuff'?

The post than Dan put up at the start of this thread is perfect, witht the two schools of thought. And his advice on which one to follow at this point is also dead on.

You are on the right track with respect to A/D, however as you gain experience and tailor your personal philosophy, you will take your lumps. The thing to keep in mind about subs at the end of any game, whether it is freshman boys or college games, is that they generally are not as skilled and have a lot of energy, either because they're finally on the floor or they want to prove they should be playing more. That can result in overly physcial play which you cannot allow. That's the worst thing you can do--allow very physical play wihtout whistles because that can lead to explosions that ruin the game and cause you and crew problems.

So you're teaching him he can get away with this? Where do you draw the line? 15 feet? 10 feet? Boo. Every kid, even the scrubs, deserves a fairly called game. We're there to administer the rules, not pat little Jimmy on the head and say "that's okay, you're just a benchwarmer" if he does something wrong. Kind of insulting, if you ask me.

I'm just a first year guy as well; I feel that consistency at this point in my career is the biggest thing I need to work on. How am I supposed to accomplish this by changing the way I make calls in this fashion?