Jump ball??????
 

Shot goes up and there is a scrum for the rebound. From C I have a clear shot directly through the middle of the lane and can see that two whites have tied up the ball and are trying to pull it away from one another (and yes each moved both feet)...they are on L's side of the floor, but they have their backs to the L official. There is a blue player in the vicinity, he could possibly be reaching in with a hand, but he is positively, 100% not part of the tie-up...L blows it dead and calls a held ball. What would you have done from C?

Hope no one else in the gym had the same view.

Nothing.

Unfortunately the blue coach had a pretty good look himself so he of course jumped up off the bench with a "WHAT??!?!??!?!" By this time I was already on my way over to L, I just pulled him aside and said that I saw two whites on the ball, did he really have a blue player on it - not changing his call, just letting him know what I saw. He said "really?" and immediately changed it to a travel...this was early in the first half and unfortunately I forgot to bring it up at halftime or post-game to get a more thorough explanation of what he was thinking...I have never done this before, and I guess I could have let him die with it, but I chose to make us all look better...not sure that I would do it again, certainly wouldn't do it with a strong partner which I wouldn't classify this individual as...

good job
 

you did just what I would have done in that situation...give him information, then support whatever decision he makes..

Sounds like you got by with it. Without seeing the play I'm thinking I would've stayed away from that play. Especially since your not sure if the blue shirt got the ball or not.

I don't have a problem with what you did at all as long as you were 100% certain.

I might offer information to the official that there is no way that could have been a jump ball because opponents did not have the ball. That would depend on game situation, my angle on the play and my knowledge of the official making the call. But I would lean towards doing nothing. You cannot save your partner from every stupid call.

Peace

I think everyone in the gym knew it was not a held ball except this official. I actually believe after working the rest of the game with him that he blew the whistle just to avoid having to officiate the action...seemed like the type of official who would just make the most convenient call available, he just chose a really bad time to do it in this case b/c the play was basically naked and everyone saw it...even the white coach didn't make a peep as we went the other way...

kbilla:

From the description that you gave of the play, only one official should be putting air in his whistle and that is the C. The C is the only official that can see the whole play. The L does not have a clue as to what is happening because he cannot see the ball. If an official cannot see that ball then he cannot make a ruling.

A few years ago I remember reading an article either in Referee or the pay side of Officiaitng.com about to officiate held balls and the key to making the correct call is to see the ball. In your play, the L could not see the play but the C could and is the official that should have been making the call PERIOD.

MTD, Sr.

MTD, Clear some space in your mailbox. I need to send a PM.

Very good point Mark, I would hope that if the play had gone on for another instant I would have blown it, but he blew the jump ball pretty quickly. If it isn't in my primary, I like to give that official the first shot at it, and I suppose in that instant it didn't register that he is screened and can't see the play...like I said I think he just blew it dead to avoid any further action from taking place which I don't like at all, officiate the whole play!

Do you think rushing in on a call like this outside your primary sets you up for the dreaded jump ball/foul/TO double whistle? (Which is why I always start the jump ball signal with the the stop clock signal only even though it is not a prescribed mechanic)...

I had a freshman game my first or second year and my partner after I reported a two shot foul and I was going my position, approached me and said " I don't think that she fouled her" I told him I don't care what you think let's go.

kbilla,
Can you explain when you call traveling when people from the same team come down with the rebound, I've been calling traveling if either moves their feet once they're on the floor and they both are still hanging onto the ball. Is this right?

I'm not kbilla, but you have it correct. If two teammates both possess the ball, it is traveling if either one commits a traveling violation.

It is travelling if either player commits a traveling violation, but not if either player pivots correctly. So, each player may move one foot while still holding on to the ball. Case 4.44.2 sit B.

You put your right foot in.....
 

Then if they continue this way, you do the hokey pokey...maybe get the whole gym involved....should be fun :D

Hit the whistle before the Lead and called traveling.

What about trusting my partner to make that call on the play right in front of him? It is tough to 1) see the play 2) determine that your partner is screened and 3) decide that you are going to reach in to his primary, right in front of him and make that call all in about what .2 or .3 seconds? Again he did make the call fairly quickly, I didn't have much of a chance to help him. I thought it was the right thing to do after the fact to get it right..

That's where being a really awesome official comes in handy. ;)

Now if you'll pardon me, I have to go have my morning OJ and humble pills.

kbilla, can you tell me how you guys came to the conclusion that you were going to call a travel instead of the jump ball? I'm with Nevada & the other poster who said you should've came in with either the jump ball or travel since you had the best look. But since you didn't have air in your whistle and your partner calls a jump ball (by your opinion, quickly), which you in turn provide information that it wasn't a jump ball, which is why the whistle was blown, how does your partner and you for that matter, change it to a travel?

If I have a jump ball and blow my whistle for it, and my partner comes in and tells me that the opposing player never had his hand on the ball and it was 2 players from the same team, I am either going to give it back to the team who had possesion when the whistle was blown and call it an inadvertant whistle, or I'm going to call it a jump ball.

Now if we have a double whistle and I have a jump and you have a travel, then I can go with the travel, that wasn't the case though.

Ha ha no wonder you're on me for putting .4 back, a really awesome official would have had the superman vision to visually see each 10th click off and would have known that it was not .4, but .5 left!:)

Care to explain how you can go with the travel over the jump ball, rule-wise? :confused:

We came to the conclusion because it WAS a travel. I see what you are saying that since I didn't make the travel call initially that you are asserting that we lose the option of going with the travel, but to me it comes down to my partner making a call that didn't make any sense and I thought we all saved a lot of credibility by fixing it. Your point about an IW is interesting, I hadn't thought of it....like I said not sure that I would do this again, have to consider the partner...

If we have a double whistle where I call a jump ball and my partner (lets call him kbilla) calls a travel. When kbilla and I come together, and even if we don't come together, kbilla states to me so everyone hears him, "I have a travel Joe, there wasn't a time-up, 2 players from the same team had possession" I'm going with kbilla's travel.