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-   -   Explaining non calls out of your primary to coaches. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/40880-explaining-non-calls-out-your-primary-coaches.html)

26 Year Gap Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:16pm
Old School philosophy.

Back In The Saddle Wed Jan 09, 2008 01:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
Everyone has their own style. Remember, I'd only use that IF there was substantial contact and believe something probably should have been called. When that happens, we are all responsible. And that does happen at every level. Sometimes we have no explanation just like players miss wide-open layins. It's OK to admit it.

I don't like to say "he had a better angle/look" or "you'll have to ask him", because on substantial contact, WE need to have some whistle. I feel that those kinds of remarks can be construed as "he missed it and I'm not getting involved". I'd rather remain completely silent on those occasions than go there. I don't feel comfortable with that; it feels like a U2 move. But I do understand that many do this, and I have no issue with it. It's not wrong.

You can make the argument that the coach will then go after the guy. My experience has been that when I make a statement like that, it ends there, because the coach knows he was heard, and it is acknowledged that WE just didn't have a whistle. Cannot do it more than once or twice in a game, but if more than that is missed, you just have to be aggressive out of your area and take care of business, or go silent.
Sounds more like a U99 philosophy to me. :rolleyes: Let me ask you this, oh Oracle-ish one...who is watching the players in your area while you and the coach are watching the ball in your parnter's area?

TheOracle Wed Jan 09, 2008 01:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
And how would you know if that happened out of your area? :confused:
Come on, Mark. You officiate in your primary, but when you have to help get something outside of your primary, you do so. I can tell you every time there is a big collision or substantial contact during a game, because that can escalate and cause problems. And if I don't have a whistle, and nobody else does, I can freely admit to someone that there was a big collision and for whatever reason we didn't get anything. It happens. However, I love it when my partners pick up something that I should have, but just did not pull the trigger. That's teamwork and good for everyone.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 09, 2008 08:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
If you thought there was a foul: "You have a valid point, coach, I should have helped and didn't. My bad." "Hey, we just didn't get that one, myself included, and we heard you."
Helluva idea. "Yes, coach, my partner surely did screw up." Yup, helluva idea.

Lah me. :rolleyes:

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 09, 2008 08:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
I don't like to say "he had a better angle/look" or "you'll have to ask him", because <font color = red>on substantial contact, WE need to have some whistle.</font>
Ever heard of <b>incidental</b> contact? Ever thought that your partner might have heard of <b>incidental</b> contact?

Substantial contact does not necessarily mean that a foul has occurred.

jdw3018 Wed Jan 09, 2008 08:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
I don't feel comfortable with that; it feels like a U2 move.
Yeah, because my assignor really likes his Rs to ball-watch and throw partners under the bus.

That's what is holding me back...:D

jdw3018 Wed Jan 09, 2008 08:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Ever heard of <b>incidental</b> contact? Ever thought that your partner might have heard of <b>incidental</b> contact?

Substantial contact does not necessarily mean that a foul has occurred.
But Jurassic, if you want to be an R, you need to pay attention to contact all over the court and make sure you let the coach know your partner missed calls. It makes the coaches like you more.

TheOracle Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Ever heard of <b>incidental</b> contact? Ever thought that your partner might have heard of <b>incidental</b> contact?

Substantial contact does not necessarily mean that a foul has occurred.
Go back and actually read. Take a breath. Incidental contact? Yup, go back and read my original post. I'll never leave my area on incidental contact. "Yes, there was contact. We just did not have a whistle on that one." Pretty straight forward.

TheOracle Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
But Jurassic, if you want to be an R, you need to pay attention to contact all over the court and make sure you let the coach know your partner missed calls. It makes the coaches like you more.
No, but if you want to be a good official, you need to be aware of what is occurring during the game and work together with your partners to maintain its integrity. When crews miss big calls, it hurts all the officials, the coaches, and the players. I understand and accept that everybody misses calls. It's part of the game. No need to run and hide from it. It makes coaches and players respect you more, and makes the game better.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
Go back and actually read. Take a breath. Incidental contact? Yup, go back and read my original post. I'll never leave my area on incidental contact. "Yes, there was contact. We just did not have a whistle on that one." Pretty straight forward.
Take a breath yourself. Then ask yourself what if your partner ruled incidental contact on a trainwreck in <b>HIS</b> primary?

What makes you think that your judgment is better than your partner's? Especially on a call in which he should have a better view?

Good luck with your philosophy. May I suggest that before applying it, you pick the partner that you want to try it out on <b>very</b> carefully.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Take a breath yourself. Then ask yourself what if your partner ruled incidental contact on a trainwreck in <b>HIS</b> primary?

What makes you think that your judgment is better than your partner's? Especially on a call in which he should have a better view?

Good luck with your philosophy. May I suggest that before applying it, you pick the partner that you want to try it out on <b>very</b> carefully.
I use, "yeah -- he kicked the s*** out of that one. Remember that his name is Tom and I'm Bob when you do the ratings."

It's the same point as Oracle, but makes sure the coach won't miss it.

Nevadaref Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:55am
PS I'm now waiting to see how long it takes for a mod to delete this post. In fact, this is exactly the same error that I corrected for that other poster.

Junker Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Coach, my partner will be over here in the minute you can ask them what they saw.
This is exactly how I handle it.

Nevadaref Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
This is exactly how I handle it.
I hope not. I hope that you speak better than that. ;)

bob jenkins Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:48pm
About 50 minutes (although I edited it instead of deleting it). Sorry that I wasn't here sooner.

Now knock it the **** off.


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