Trifecta

[kbilla]

Men’s juco game Sat afternoon…about 5 mins in, A1 goes coast to coast and in for the layup against B1, B1 goes down, L passes on any call right in front of him, ball goes in. A1 stands over B1 and points down at him screaming, then slaps his own chest. L freezes, but from C I see it, this is an easy one so I come in and get the tech on A1. I stopped for a second to explain to A’s coach what happened and he made a comment like “if your partner had called that obvious block, my guy wouldn’t have acted like an idiot” which I thought was a little funny..A1 even apologized to me later, which was not necessary, but a nice gesture... Later on in the first half, this time B1 is going coast to coast and goes up against A1 for a shot and my partner who is L in this case (same partner as in first case) comes out with a PC foul and waves off the basket. I was C table side so as I turn around I can see that the B coach is livid, and he is going to come walking out, so before he gets a chance I walk toward him to cut him off. He starts going off, “how is that not a block, no way that is a charge”, etc, we’re ok to this point, I just said “coach my partner had the best look at the play”, etc…I basically had the same look at it that the coach did and it was a tough call (my partner later said he wished he could have it back, would have had a block). So the coach goes off a little then “that was a horse(poop) call!”, loud enough for all to hear….WHACK, there’s #2 for me in the first half, both times basically protecting my partner. So we are now in the second half, I am T in the FC and there is a steal at the division line and a quick break with A1 & B1 only…A1 goes up for the layup, lays it off the board and as it is on the board, B1 smacks the backboard….ball goes in. I blow tech #3 for the game. Again B coach can’t believe it, so I go to report, then stop and explain to him what happened….he and A1 both claim that he was going for a block, he had never seen anything like this in college basketball, it should have been a goaltend if he smacked the backboard (wrong), etc, etc, just really flabbergasted….but it was clear to me that A1 was nowhere near the ball, in my judgement he intentionally slapped it after the ball was well out of his reach…I do regret that I spent a little more time than I should have talking to the coach, I should have given a brief explanation and gotten the hell out of there…rest of the game went without much of a hitch, but a good, close game.

This is my issue…this was only my third regular season juco game…incidentally my one partner who was L in the first two instances above, he is an experienced HS official, but it was his first juco game, so I think he was a little more tentative in a few cases than he normally would have been. As it turns out I end up with three techs in one game when I hadn’t had any in the first two…not necessarily anything wrong with that, the first two techs were really easy, obvious ones to get, but I am torn about the last one. So to you guys with more college experience out there, would you have passed on the third one? In hindsight I’m not so sure. I do think by rule it was a good tech, and it is indirect so no tf count, doesn’t go against 1/5 to DQ on the player, so we administered it correctly. Just the fact that personally it was my third of the game I think got me wondering if I was a little too zealous…how often have you guys seen this called in the college game? I know it is a call that really should be made by T/C, however, in this case on the quick break they weren’t in any position to make it I didn’t think, and passing on it b/c it was not technically “my call” would have been a cop out IMO….thoughts anyone?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I do regret that I spent a little more time than I should have talking to the coach,...

I believe that you spent too much time talking to the coach during the entire game. No need to keep explaining your calls to the coach.

Good job having the stones to call what you see and what you believe. Don't ever pass on anything intentional, flagrant, or unsporting.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that you spent too much time talking to the coach during the entire game. No need to keep explaining your calls to the coach.

Good job having the stones to call what you see and what you believe. Don't ever pass on anything intentional, flagrant, or unsporting.

Agree with you on this...the first two situations were pretty quick exchanges, the last one I did spend too much time....you don't think that a quick explanation is a good thing to give to a coach following a T? I think on the last one, just given the degree of disbelief of the coach, and my own college inexperience I think I was questioning myself a little as to whether or not this is legitimate in the college game....I think that is why I spent more time than I should have with him...won't happen again...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

you don't think that a quick explanation is a good thing to give to a coach following a T? ...

Not unless the play is highly unusual and he asks politely and calmly. Don't go engage the coach or initiate the discussion.

For example, for your first T all that you had to do was loudly state "taunting" while reporting to the table. That's a clear explanation which the coach can hear, then walk away. Let the coach discuss the situation with his player. You have partners to communicate with and a game to administer.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not unless the play is highly unusual and he asks politely and calmly. Don't go engage the coach or initiate the discussion.

For example, for your first T all that you had to do was loudly state "taunting" while reporting to the table. That's a clear explanation which the coach can hear, then walk away. Let the coach discuss the situation with his player. You have partners to communicate with and a game to administer.

Noted, thanks....I think the second one I thought I was doing him a favor cutting him off before he came onto the floor, I thought I could save him from himself....my mistake

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Noted, thanks....I think the second one I thought I was doing him a favor cutting him off before he came onto the floor, I thought I could save him from himself....my mistake

The general opinion is that engaging an upset coach usually leads to that official T'ing him. Your experience adds credibility to that thought.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by kbilla

the first two techs were really easy, obvious ones to get, but I am torn about the last one. So to you guys with more college experience out there, would you have passed on the third one? Just the fact that personally it was my third of the game I think got me wondering if I was a little too zealous…

I know this will sound like a cop-out, but I really think this is a play that we can't comment on intelligently without seeing it. Here's the good thing about it, though. You're thinking about it. You're asking the right questions. You called a rulebook T and administered it correctly; and now you're wondering if the rulebook T fit the game.

Since I can't comment intelligently without seeing the play, I will comment unintelligently. I think that I would have passed on the T since the ball went in the basket. The shaking of the board didn't affect the shot, so the real reason to call it would be if I thought he was showboating or venting frustration (IOW, the slap is so hard that it can't be ignored).

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way, but the self-critique is a sign of a conscientious official.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I know this will sound like a cop-out, but I really think this is a play that we can't comment on intelligently without seeing it. Here's the good thing about it, though. You're thinking about it. You're asking the right questions. You called a rulebook T and administered it correctly; and now you're wondering if the rulebook T fit the game.

Since I can't comment intelligently without seeing the play, I will comment unintelligently. I think that I would have passed on the T since the ball went in the basket. The shaking of the board didn't affect the shot, so the real reason to call it would be if I thought he was showboating or venting frustration (IOW, the slap is so hard that it can't be ignored).

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it either way, but the self-critique is a sign of a conscientious official.

Thanks Scrapper...I know that the rulebook part of things just references the slap being "intentional", but I wanted to get the input of other college officials as to the practical application. Your comment about the ball going in and therefore not being impacted by the slap was something that entered my mind post-mortum as well and I wondered if this was something that should be considered in the practical sense...the slap wasn't so hard that it was overly demonstrative and I suppose it could have been ignored, but it was in my judgement a no doubt intentional slap....

[grunewar]

Question from a "non-college" official.

If you don't call the T on the backboard slap, don't you set yourself up for it happening again later in the game and having a similar situation to the first blarge no call? As in someone slaps the backboard similarly and you "have to" call the T and get the - " they slapped the backboard and got away with it?"

While I know each situation is different you would certainly have to be consistant and isn't it just easier to call the first?

And Kb - similar to your partner, I let a close blarge go the other night in a JVB game and went with a no call and wish I had it back too....... I need to get better at that!!

[rgncjn]

Nevada took the words out of my mouth. No explanation needed, issue the T and move away.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Question from a "non-college" official.

While I know each situation is different you would certainly have to be consistant and isn't it just easier to call the first?

Funny you should mention this...one comment the coach made was something to the effect of "that happens all the time in the college game and never gets called"...well I thought to myself, it hadn't happened that game prior to this..it didn't happen again after that (thankfully!), and I probably watched all or part of at least 5 NCAA games over the weekend and after my game I was on full alert to see if it happened in any of those games and I never saw it...I don't think I have ever really watched for it much in the past, but I certainly don't think it happens "all the time". I know I haven't had it in a hs game this year, possibly last year but I can't recall. Legitimately going for a block and whiffing and "contacting" the bb is not the same thing as smacking it when the ball is well out of reach...

[kbilla]

One thing I did see in the course of all of those NCAA games though was a blatant violation of the inbound plane that was ignored...can't remember which game it was, but A's ball inbounding from the endline, B is jumping up and down and when he lands, both of his feet are not just on the line, but about 3/4 of the way OVER the line, not to mention his hands which are even further through the plane...granted A1 had plenty of room behind him and he just backed up, but still...to my knowledge this is administered the same as NF with a team warnign and then a team T (indirect) - again to you seasoned college guys is this just a no call? At lease assuming there is room behind the inbounder?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

One thing I did see in the course of all of those NCAA games though was a blatant violation of the inbound plane that was ignored...can't remember which game it was, but A's ball inbounding from the endline, B is jumping up and down and when he lands, both of his feet are not just on the line, but about 3/4 of the way OVER the line, not to mention his hands which are even further through the plane...granted A1 had plenty of room behind him and he just backed up, but still...to my knowledge this is administered the same as NF with a team warnign and then a team T (indirect) - again to you seasoned college guys is this just a no call? At lease assuming there is room behind the inbounder?

You need to check the NCAA rule.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You need to check the NCAA rule.

Geez make me work OK, I see 7.6.6.b where the rule is the same as far as an opponent not having any part of his or her person over the inside plane of the boundary line, so what I was seeing was at least a violation that was not called...I see where it is an indirect tech to reach through and touch the ball in 10.3.8, but I don't see anywhere that indicates the penalty for 7.6.b specifically? Help?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Geez make me work OK, I see 7.6.6.b where the rule is the same as far as an opponent not having any part of his or her person over the inside plane of the boundary line, so what I was seeing was at least a violation that was not called...I see where it is an indirect tech to reach through and touch the ball in 10.3.8, but I don't see anywhere that indicates the penalty for 7.6.b specifically? Help?

Hint: Violations are in rule 9.