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-   -   QF1Y: Travelling Violation? --- With Video Goodness (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/40833-qf1y-travelling-violation-video-goodness.html)

bob jenkins Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
I don't count when the BC count would start with less than 10 seconds on the clock. But I always look at the clock in such a situation so that I know that it's running.
I "count", but I don't *signal* the count. So, I still have "definite knowledge".

daveg144 Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:35am
I'd count ten seconds (even though there's less than 10 seconds left in game) just to be consistent and for possible timing issues.

One other thing, I'd get a little closer to the ball when coming up the floor. I feel it's best to only be a step or two behind the ball coming up the court.

rockyroad Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I "count", but I don't *signal* the count. So, I still have "definite knowledge".
Concur...no real reason to have a "visible" count, but you should be counting for all the previously stated reasons.

rainmaker Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Concur...no real reason to have a "visible" count, but you should be counting for all the previously stated reasons.
Mybe not for you, but I"m still working on my credibility and image. If I"m visibly counting, then if I need to use my definite knowledge, everyone knows it's definite, and not just something I made up (which I've been accused of). If someone were to think my visible count when there's less than 10 seconds left shows I'm not aware of the game situation, they'd soon see that's not the case as I was right on top of any situation that might occur.

ref2coach Mon Jan 07, 2008 01:50pm
When I am trail and the clock has less than 10 seconds showing, I count but I use the "wrist flick" instead of the "full arm" count.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 07, 2008 02:12pm
What's more accurate, counting in case the clock doesn't start or looking at the clock to make sure it has started?

rainmaker Mon Jan 07, 2008 02:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
What's more accurate, counting in case the clock doesn't start or looking at the clock to make sure it has started?
Why not do both?

Johnny Ringo Mon Jan 07, 2008 02:29pm
Player on two knees and lifts one knee and now only on one knee and stays that way while trying to pass - violation?

Always count!

Brad Mon Jan 07, 2008 03:18pm
Agree on the arms hanging by your side - does not look very athletic. Also agree on the "safe" signal.

Having a 10 second count when there is less than 10 seconds on the clock is asinine. If the clock doesn't start, you can address that issue on it's own -- but there is no reason to count when there is no way that you can have a violation! With 4.5 seconds on the clock, having a 10-second backcourt count makes you look stupid.

Finally, you can't see what happens with the player to get him on the floor. However, it looks like he is still dribbling and picks up the ball and passes it to another player before getting up = not a travel. If you go to the floor (with a knee) or get up from the floor while holding the ball, it is a travel.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 07, 2008 03:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Why not do both?
Why do both?

If you know the clock is running, what possible purpose can there be for counting?

Loudwhistle Mon Jan 07, 2008 07:47pm
Speeding up plays
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_rumperee
How about this one:
link
Does anyone know how to speed up utube videos? My imac is like watching the players running in peanut butter!

fullor30 Mon Jan 07, 2008 08:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_rumperee
I had my wife videotape one of my games, so I could see things like my posture and 'presence' on the court.

End of the game situation. Team A inbounds and passes the ball up towards the division line where defensive pressure causes the ball to be rolling on the floor. Player A1 almost loses ball out-of-bounds, but brings it back under control inbounds. (this is where that player becomes visible on the video)

Player A1 is on his knees with control of the basketball. He shifts his weight onto his right knee to pass to a teammate. In doing so, his left knee lifts off of the floor. I thought that in order for there to be a travel, A1 would need to be 'attempting to get up' which I did not feel that he was doing.

Let me know your thoughts....
YouTube Link

I guess that the follow up would be could that same player have a 'pivot knee'? ... lifting a knee so that his foot could then propel them around in a circle?

ps. Nice finish by Team A player just prior to buzzer!


So was the basket good at the buzzer? Never saw a signal one way or the other.

By the way, I commend you for putting yourself through this scrutiny by everyone here and all the comments are, I'm sure, meant in a positive vein.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:27am
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I "count", but I don't *signal* the count. So, I still have "definite knowledge".
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Concur...no real reason to have a "visible" count, but you should be counting for all the previously stated reasons.

Not me. If I'm going to take time off the clock or possibly even declare the end of a quarter in such a situation, I want my count to show up on video. That way everyone can see it.

ca_rumperee Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:29am
Hey, Good Point
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
So was the basket good at the buzzer? Never saw a signal one way or the other.

By the way, I commend you for putting yourself through this scrutiny by everyone here and all the comments are, I'm sure, meant in a positive vein.
The basket was good, but with 1.2 second or so still on the clock. Should I raise a hand on any shot less than say, 5 seconds? Or, only on shots that will be in the air as the horn sounds?

ps, i'll edit together a highlight reel of the few moments in the game that I was lookin' good!

HawkeyeCubP Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:58am
My association wants a count, regardless of time left on the game clock - the "on-tape" issue is, I believe, the main reason. That, and they're sticklers about the NFHS Officials' Manual - and it doesn't say to do it only when there are more than 10 seconds left on the game clock.


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