When to give it up...
 

I'm talking about girls basketball.

For those that have, when in your progression is it time to try to get out of it?

Firstly, I don't want to come off big timing nor downgrading the girls game, but frankly it is what it is.

Secondly I know this is a question without a definite answer but any experiences that can be shared is welcome.

This is my fourth year overall, and my first with games above HS. I'm nervous about my next upcoming game on this Sat, not because it's a college game, but because by the quirk of the schedule I've had only 1 boys game (of 7) in the last two weeks including tomorrow night, and am afraid of how I can "rachet up" my game come Sat. I've worked really hard at keeping a patient whistle the last couple of weeks during these girls games but I'm not always consistent with what my partners are expecting which makes for some difficult situations.

My main assignor has already hinted at moving me up to varsity boys only next year, so I'm pretty good there, but for those outstate schools that I use to fill my schedule with, do I just say no thanks?

Only you can answer that question. Do what's right for you.

As far as having trouble "ratcheting up your game" because you've been workign some girls games, I think that's ridiculous. Lots of officials do boys HS, girls HS and college games. A good official can adjust to the game they have that night.

You're probably right about that and I worded that poorly, I didn't mean for it to sound ridiculous, but remember this is coming from someone this is new to, that is the transition back and forth. For you it may be old hat, for me, well that's why I'm asking.

But mentally it's not the same, at least for me. That's a disservice to myself and the players on that game.

I guess you're right and I've pretty much answered my own question. Just looking for experiences from others.

What you are thinking is completely normal and expected. If you do not like girl's basketball, whether someone else likes it does not mean you have to just go along. There is a reason why they only want officials at the college level to work one side or the other. And a lot of officials make a choice to work one side or the other. This is not an unusual choice or decision. I decided several years ago I only liked working boy's basketball because that is what I envisioned myself doing when I got into officiating. And because I felt I did not give my all, I got out of girl's basketball. I just do not have a passion for it and if you do not have passion for it stop working those games. I also like working less days a week instead of trying to work every night working both and being frustrated.

Peace

First time poster, long time lurker.

I enjoy Girls HS and AAU BBall. Would rather ref them than boys. No testosterone, purer play (not necessarily better), and most of all, many times they exceed my expectations of what women can do on the court - a chance to impressed more often (intangible benefit of being on the same court). They are more polite, and when they disagree, they are smarter about how to vocalize it - even funnier.

My point is that if you strictly want to ref the best "athletes", then go for boys. But don't downgrade the women's game - Pat Summitt would be unhappy!

Remember the chick who played for the USA olympic softball team - the pitcher who strikes out major league hitters? 'nuff said. Would rather watch her any day than some .215 major leaguer. Same holds true for me with women's BBall.

With that attitude, you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with doing only one or only the other, nor with doing both. There is something wrong with working a game only to "fill out your schedule."

I apologize if you misinterpreted what I said. That comment was based on those games that do not come from my main assignor. I get really good boys games from the outstate. I don't consider them "filler" in the derogatory sense.

What attitude? :confused: It doesn't sound to me like he's insulting anyone. He's just noting the obvious difference between boys and girls ball. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.

For what it's worth, my schedule is now about 60% college vs. 40% HS, and I still work girls HS ball. Did one just last night, actually. I do it for a couple of reasons. One, because it helps my HS assignor. Two, because girls deserve the best officiating they can get; just as the boys do.

It's an adjustment, yes, but I can do it. Plus, I've asked my assignor to limit me to 5 or 6 girls assignments and he's fine with that. So I can help out without having to bounce back and forth all that much.

I'm with bob. If you're feeling is that a certain type of games is hurting you, then you are hurting those games and those kids. That's either by gender, age or level of play.

If you truly did mis-speak, and your question is ONLY about how to switch back and forth from level to level, then you just need to get in the habit of spending a little more time reviewing your posts before you hit the submit button.

We really do not have a choice here. Our assignor assigns games. Period. Some may end up doing a 60-40 split one way or the other, but it seems rare that someone exclusively does one gender or the other. To put it in perspective, to the kids on the court, it is THE most important game of the night.

Amen Scrapper
 

As the father of two daughters, both of whom participated in both high school, and college sports, Amen.

I am with you on this one. I think there are people here that are really sensitive when you say you do not like a level they personally do. Hell there are people around here (where I live) that even do not like to "waste their time" with boy's games at certain level of schools and would rather work the bigger schools where the players are more college ready than the smaller farm boy games where the playing days are over once HS ends. And let us not talk about college vs. HS games.

If you do not like something in your schedule and you have the capability to eliminate it, do that. This is not a primary job or source of income for most. If you do not enjoy working a certain type of ball stop working it. We all have our preferences and we all have things we do not like to do as much as other things. And that affects your enthusiasm and excitement for a particular level even if those do not want to admit it.

Peace

Aw, geeze, there you go inserting common sense into this argument.

I guess I will have to leave this thread now. :D

Peace

Agreed. It did take me a while to figure out how to make that adjustment. After I was calling mostly boys, my girls games were less than stellar (my performance). I realized that I had to start the game (and pregame) with a different angle....expecting to call things in the girls games that I pass on in a boys game. If I called it like a boys game, it would, sooner or later, start unraveling. Now that I've figured out what I needed to do differently, my girls games that I get go a lot smoother.

I'm at the point where my schedule is all over the place . For example last night I do a Boys Jv followed by the Girls Varsity. It was strange for me to have to make a shift that quick.

Feel like giving me ,,say 3 things ,that would help me make the transition a little smoother ?

Last year my schedule was all over the place. One four day period I had boys varsity, girls JV (small school), girls varsity (high level) and 6th grade boys. What helped me the most was to do more pre-game and post-game mental exercise than usual. Concentrate on adjusting A/D toggle switches, rules variables, physical reactions and expectations of outcomes. And keep reminding yourself that variety is the spice of life!

I don't know that there are any concrete things someone can give you to help you adjust. Its different for everyone. Some people are better at going from a girl's HS game one night to a men's college game the next. Others have a really hard time with it. If you are still going to do both, then you have to find what gets you prepared before each game. Some focus on the rules differences others on the style of play. I work a variety of different levels and genders and I think the biggest difference is the speed of the game. There is no way to adjust to that. The only way to get use to it is by doing that level a lot. So if you work a lot of girls HS, for example, and only one or two men's college, those men's college games are going to seem very fast, in comparison of what you are use to. Can it be done? Sure it can. Like I said, for some it is easier than others. So if you are one that it comes easy for you have nothing to worry about, just know the differences. If your one who the change doesn't come easy for, you either have to find a way to make the transition easier or make some changes in your schedule.

And don't toss every night. That's way, way too much adjustment for one weekend.

I only want to add onto the post to say how interesting it is that there seems to be so many places where this choice is available. I'm now officiating in the second state I've lived, and both states have the same setup for regular season varsity games - officials do either a V or JV G/B doubleheader. In Kansas, many times I'd have three games - JV B or G, followed by the V G/B doubleheader.

So, almost every time I go out it's to do two games (every once in a while there will only be one), and almost every time it's a girls game then a boys game. Guess it keeps me on my toes!! :D

Mostly, it is the point at which contact creates and advantage. It comes a lot sooner in most girls games.

To manage that, I mentally prepare for the specific game by telling myself(while traveling to the game/during pregame/during the game) and pregaming with my partner that those more marginal bumps need to be called (or not) depending on the type of game it is.


A minor handcheck on the dribbler as they come across the FT line and curl down the lane doesn't even phase most boys...they often beat the defender that is handchecking them, cut down the lane, and make a layup, a short undefended jumper, or get fouled while attempting the shot. It is my experience that most boys coaches/players would rather have this shot than the earlier foul (and the ball OOB). They prefer the advantage they had with the player going down the open lane. Calling the foul takes it away from them.

However, in a girls game, the same handcheck more often leads to a different outcome. Less often does the dribbler have enough strength to play through the contact and take advantage of having the defender in a bad position. When they're able to make the turn down the lane, they either don't have enough left to make the shot or they slow down enough that the other defenders prevent them from getting the open shot.

It is a matter of recognizing that the same contact is a foul one game but not another depending the skill, strength, and speed of the specific teams involved...and the difference between a most boys games and most girls games tends to be more substantial than the difference within the same gender.

I agree with this part, but disagree with the rest. The main difference between calling a boys' game and a girls' game is that a girls' game will have a lot more contact, and it's harder to determine advantage and disadvantage. I think rather than what Camron is saying that girls' are less able to "play through" contact, they actually play through a lot more. It's much much easier in a boys' game, because there's usually a lot less total contact, and it's a lot more clear which contact is a foul and which isnt. Just antoher point of view.

Interesting topic. I work HS boys and girls (and a few lower level women's college) games. Obviously there is a difference in speed, physicality and airborne action between boys and girls (and men & women in college). As others have said, you learn to adjust overall between the two. However, a boys game between two very small, rural schools (or private schools) is usually played at a very different pace than urban and large schools. Not that the small schools don't have physical, high-flying fast-paced games, but typically, there is noticeable difference. If you go from the small school Friday night game to a big school showdown on Saturday, I think the difference is huge (even though both are boys games).

You have to prepare for the difference before the games (just as you might if you're switching back and forth from boys to girls).

I enjoy working boys and girls games. Let's face it, a competitive, well played girls game is usually a lot more fun to work than a 30 point mis-matched boys game, right? The point is to enjoy the games you have been assigned for what they are. In any season, you're going to have some great games between two very competitive teams. You're also going to have a lot more mismatches and lopsided affairs than the great ones. Most games are not particularly close (and often not well played). However, we are there to call these games fairly and to the best of our ability. As someone else mentioned (and the man who I took the officiating class said every week), the game you're on is the most important game in the world to the players that day. They deserve our best effort.

With all that being said, we still have to do what works best for ourselves and if you feel that working girls games hinders your ability to work higher level boys/mens games, then don't work the girls games.

Boys play vertically.

Girls play horizontally.

Call all games the same way, it's all advantage/disadvantage, once you get that clear it's not that hard.

Over thinking the difference is what causes trouble.

And with that being said, what is considered an advantage and one and a disadvantage in the other is not always the same thing. This is why people have a hard time transitioning. And not knowing the differences in expectations is what gets a lot of people in trouble or makes their job difficult in the first place. This is why many people if given a choice simply choose. And there is nothing wrong with choosing. You do not have to prove to one side or the other that you are dedicated to that side of ball.

Peace

Getting ready to travel to my game today so I'm going to make a couple of quick points.

1) First thanks to all who have replied, there have been a lot of very good replies in this thread, and a lot of advice can be taken from them. And thanks for mostly keeping the discussion away from girls vs boys, I was hoping it wouldn't degenerate to that and it didn't.

2) Second, remembering that the underlying point of my OP was in regards to an officials progression, in particular mine, or anybody else that is trying to move up. Had this thread been instead of HS girls basketball and mens college and replace it with JH/9th,etc and HS varsity. Would that change your response?

It would not change my reply - or it wouldn't if I had actually replied already. But I will reply now to the general topic of "when should you stop doing any particular level of ball?" To me it's a simple answer: you stop when that level of ball stops being fun for you.

If switching back and forth between levels is really causing that much stress and confusion, then stop doing it. In my career, I "quit" doing HS ball before my 5th season of small college ball - I still enjoy the HS game and still go watch a lot, but it was not much fun for me anymore because the games really are called quite differently and I wasn't handling that very well. So I made the decision to stop. I still do a few nights each season when the local assignor is really stacked up, but it was a decision that worked well for me.

So, if you're not having any fun and not enjoying yourself doing girls HS ball, then stop doing it.

And this is the truest statement of this entire thread. It is not about whether it is hard to go back and forth or not. If you are not enjoying it, why put yourself through the trouble.

I used to work baseball and softball in the spring. I found that I did not have the same passion for softball, so I quit. One of the best decisions I made in officiating.

Peace

Just got home, it went good. Thanks a bunch to all.

Later.

There are exceptions, but for the most part I agree. My mix so far this season is roughly 60/40 boys/girls, and I have no problem at all going back & forth - even on the same night.

True Jeff, but not just between boys & girls. You'll find the same differences depending on the level, quality & skills of the teams even if you do just boys games. Yeah I've had some girls games that were mind numbing, but I've also had boys games that were just as bad.....

The point that I am trying to make is the less you work all types of levels with all kinds of expectations, the less you have to constantly make adjustments. And this is why I do not work a lot of kinds of basketball because I do not want to have to completely change my mindset each night. It works for me and I am happier with the results.

Peace