Passed on a T yesterday, why?
 

I just wanted to vent...I'm going to move past this but I just needed to blow off some steam about how I didn't handle something in the best manner yesterday.

My first game yesterday of a big MS/Open Team tourney I passed on a T that I probably should have given to a 7th grade coach and would have avoided this posting. I let the coaches chirping go longer than I probably should have without saying anything and then he just struck a nerve with something he said that I took personally and I'm sure was heard clear across the court.

I don't recall when but it started in the first half about me needing to "call it at both ends"...initially, I was like whatever, I'm calling the game pretty well, I
I felt the calls we (or I) was calling were good ones and he's upset his team is getting beat and not playing well.

I gave him some small talk back "I'll look for it....I'm watching coach" etc to let him know I was "on it" and difuse his complaints.....He made a few more remarks even after getting about 3-4 calls during the course of the first half that he was chirping about and it seemed each one became more inflamatory, if you will.

It seemed to me that he wasn't giving my partner any lip AT ALL...I felt like I was making all the calls at both ends and his comments were ENTIRELY directed at me!? During the second half when his team was whistled for a foul on the shooter (I was L)...as my partner and I went to switch and I'm going to report and move to T for the FTs the coach says " YEAH,....Get HIM down there...get somebody down there that can call the game!"

Here is where I went wrong.... I should have just whacked him right then.....I immediately went to him face to face and we had a conversation that I should not have even had. I got pretty pissy with him after he told me my partner told him that he (my partner) was having to make calls out of HIS area for ME!?

I raised my voice and let him know about his comments (wrong) to which he took exception to my demeanor and what I said and I instantly realized that I crossed the line with what/how I said it and I apologized to him....I then simply told him that I was not going to tolerate hearing anymore about my calls and asked him if he understood me....he said yes and that was that...

Now, in my next game I had a local MS whom I know coach and players (my rec league plays their games at this MS, so I see the coaches scouting the 6th graders and some of the kids have played in my rec league over the years and have now made the team) and an open team from West Chicago. Both coaches are really nice guys, the Illni team are really good and win by 12...the only comments I got during the game were question on shooting fouls (were the kids dropping their arms creating the contact....Yes coach)...Afterward the Illini coach stops me to shake my hand and said it was one of the best officiated games he's had and thankd me and my partner for our work.....

Some guys get it....

I was once told to only believe those comments when they come from the losing team.


So did you address your partner about him throwing you under the bus?

When did his partner throw him under the bus?:confused:

The coach was directing all of his comments directly at coltdoggs. Coltdoggs didn't take care of his <b>own</b> bidness. That's why he was (rightfully) mad at <b>himself</b>. He knows where he went wrong--->arguing with the coach instead of just dispassionately whacking him. Just a learning situation from the sound of it....and coltdoggs obviously did learn.

I do agree with you that you should've whacked him the first time, however we don't have time machines and we can't go back to change the past, we can only learn and improve the future.

You know, I wonder why that is? Anyone?

Maybe it's the way the referee looks, or acts, that determines whether or not a coach will keep screaming at them.

Maybe the coach just thought you looked like an easy target and therefore would not 'T' him up for anything, which seemed to be the case. I believe the next time he lips you, you choose to either warn him ONCE or 'T' him up right anyway.

You should be out there having fun, not dealing with a jackass who's team can't play...

I wouldn't believe a word of it, unless your partner had admit to it. Other than that it seemed his only mission was to rattle your chain and piss you off, and it worked.

But keep your chin up bud, you live and learn. I don't think any skilled official can say he went through his or her career without making mistakes. You made one but more importantly you learned from it.

I wouldn't believe this...but probably would have made a comment to my partner about it - as in, "That coach said blah blah blah, you didn't say that, did you?"

Assuming the coach wasn't lying (which is an assumption), it's time to have a very frank chat with your partner. :mad:

Okie dokie Mr Attorney for Coltdoggs, this is when the coach presented your client with the info:


Here is where I went wrong.... I should have just whacked him right then.....I immediately went to him face to face and we had a conversation that I should not have even had. I got pretty pissy with him after he told me my partner told him that he (my partner) was having to make calls out of HIS area for ME!?


Reading is... F U N D A M E N T A L!

If this is true, then this is where the bus was rolled on top of him - and backed up again:

Coltdoggs - not calling a T when it is deserved is something you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. Twenty years from now, you'll wake up in the middle of the night screaming that you blew it. This missed opportunity will haunt you and destroy any chance you had of leading a normal life. You need to start seeing a psychiatrist now, before it's too late. :eek:

On the other hand, you could just learn from it, forget about it and move on. :p

Colt - similar situation happened to me last yr. I called a PC foul on the best player on the team - his 5th, he was gone. While heading to the bench, he took off his jersey and tossed it. I whacked him! The coach became unglued. I shoulda whacked him and tossed him for his behavior and language and didn't - similar to situation to yours. Subsequently, his team won the game in OT. I was distraught as I knew if I had T'd and tossed him they probably would have lost. Only good news out of the entire situation (other than me learning the same lesson you are) is the league DQ'd the team for the EOY Tourney and banished the coach. It won't happen to me again...and I trust it won't happen to you either. I feel for ya dude!

You're right. I missed that. In that case, I certainly would ask my partner about it <b>after</b> the game. If he tells me that it's bullsh!t, I'll believe my partner. Divide and conquer is an old coaching ploy.

And as for your "Mr. Attorney for Coltdoggs" comment, coltdoggs knew and admitted where he screwed up. He obviously learned from the situation. He didn't need me to back him up on anything.

You're correct sir, perhaps I should've said Public Defender instead of an Attorney...
You did do a half-heartedly job at representing him :cool:

Gee - maybe you should have had the scorer tell you when he got his 4th, then you probably wouldn't have called this one because it wasn't blatant. :rolleyes:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Yup, I've turned over a new leaf. It's my New Year's resolution. I'm not going to say anything derogatory to anyone anymore.....not even to complete azzholes like you.

So.....I guess you're starting tomorrow? :rolleyes:

Alas, another New Year's resolution that probably won't last too long.... :p

Unless he's getting more than a good night's sleep and a good breakfast.

Bran and prune juice, I tell you.

That is a very astute comment. Divide and conquer works way too frequently in life. I would always make the assumption that my partner(s) would never make a comment like that to a coach, and any time a coach made a comment like that, it would be an automatic T. I'd also ask the question, is it really a good thing to confront a partner about it, considering the divide and conquer principle? They will almost never admit to it, and it may cause issues down the road if and when you work with them again. Is it stupid to just make the 100% blanket assumption that this never occurs to mmaintain crew and fraternal unity amongst us, even though we know it does happen on occasion?

This is the most important part of the narrative. It is essential that you understand why the coach is harping on you -- BECAUSE IT IS WORKING!!!

Not only has the coach has not been penalized for his behavior, his team has actually been rewarded for it. He has gotten you to make a few calls that he wants.

Officials must understand that this is the coach's primary objective when complaining to the officials. Just in case anyone is unclear what that is I'll spell it out directly -- to get calls for his team.

Sadly many officials try to make the coach happy and attempt to appease him by making a few calls that he is after. This is a terrible trap to fall into. It's an act. An official shouldn't want to be the coach's friend. The coach doesn't want to be your friend. He just wants to use you. Be strong and call the game as you see it.

This is why this stuff needs to be nipped in the bud early. If a quick word doesn't straighten out his behavior, then the technical foul MUST be used as a countermeasure to this coaching "strategy." Otherwise, someone is permitted to benefit from unsporting behavior. That is something which cannot be allowed.

I hate to say this, but the fact that you lost your cool should indicate why he picked on you - it was clear to him (even if it not consciously) that you could be manipulated. Of the two of you, you were the weaker official. That's not to say you're not as good as your partner, but you were perceived as weaker than your partner.

Here's the problem (and I know many of the officials on this board will dispute this, but I've seen it to be true): Officials can often be manipulated. Sometimes this isn't a bad thing - maybe you forgot to start your five-second counts and were reminded. But often it's just simple manipulation - sometimes even intimidation. You're in the Chicago area, I gather. Go work a conference game coached by Mike Bailey or Gene Pingatore (or god forbid - both.) You will be working with two coaches who are very good at "helping" officials make calls a certain way. Sometimes they do this with honey, sometimes with vinegar; but that's the nature of manipulation.

Many coaches also see that they start getting the benefit of the doubt after an official loses his cool. If an official makes a big show of warning (or T'ing) a coach and getting visibly angry, it's likely that he's a little embarrassed afterward and tries to "make sure it's a good one" before calling anything against that coach right away.

In my experience, here's what most officials DON'T do (even though we coaches will sometimes complain that they do): Very few officials will make a call against a team just because they are mad at a coach (in my estimation.) Yet many officials will be extra careful about making the right call if a coach has caused them to lose their cool over a similar call. It's human nature. Add to that, most officials are in this because they are pretty good guys (and girls). They tend to WANT to be nice and to become inwardly embarrassed if they lose their cool.

Basketball officiating is uniquely difficult in that it is highly subjective, in ridiculously close proximity to fans and coaches, and very personal. Added to that, it's acquired one of the most difficult-to-understand and litigious rule sets in all of sports. There is plenty of room for coaches to try to impose their personalities on your work.

Sorry you had a rough game.

I don't have much more to add, but this part did get me thinking....

Personally, this statement gets my attention. The coach is questioning my integrity on the court. Most often, I will have a short conversation with the coach, Coach - I don't appreciate the fact that you are questioning my integrity, I don't want to hear it again!

After that - whack as appropriate.

I think this is a perfect example of a coach becoming a distraction and taking one's concentration away from the game. Often at the lower levels, the coaches are usually inexperienced and dont' know how to correctly approach officials. Bench decorum is very important at this level game.

Once a coach starts trying to pit you against your partner, that and any further conversations end.

And don't ever raise your voice at a coach, because it makes us look like the bad guy in the end. Hopefully, you will learn from how you handled this situation and not let it occur in the future.

Thanks for all the replies guys...I didn't handle this one the way I have in the past nor how I will in the future...it was really an isolated incident where I think I took his lip personally...

As for him perceiving me to be the "weaker" official...perhaps, and perhaps it had to do with me being probably 20 years younger? Could be other factors such as race? My partner is a good guy and he's been working games at our facility longer than I....maybe this particular coach knew him and I'd never had this coach before.... I don't tend to have any issues like this with the coaches I do know there and have seen my work multiple times the past 6-7 months.

Don't think, just whack especially while you're young. You get away with it on two levels. 1) the coach thinks your nuts and won't screw with you as much. 2) You're supervisor can back you by saying you are in fact young and your communications skills have not gotten to a great point yet.

That's where I'm at right now. I have given out quite a few T's and tossed 2 guys. By the end of the season, it will get around the coaches water cooler that I'm nuts and it will calm them down from yelling at me and we can then have more effective communication. It's just a big circle. Referee to your personality.

I will say this though. Be damn glad you didn't whack the coach after you went after him. It's ok for coaches to step over the line cause we then have the power to whack them or not, but when we step over, we have now taken our professionalism out of the way and we now have to let the coach step back over the line since you stepped over it. Just be cognizant of that. You handled it in your own way but when you do it like that, be prepared to take some heat back and not whack them.

Funny how that happens... :)

I havent given a T to a coach yet this year after I gave 3 to one head coach by half time last year. Story below. Word does get around. Make sure they are good ones--ie the coach earned them. Make sure you arent doing them just to prove a point or to establish a rep. But dont be afraid to give them. A T should be just like a travel--its there, you are just pointing out that it occurred.

This season I have been able to resolve all coach issues with a simple comment. And I know part of it is cause they know I will hold them to their code of coduct and the rules and I will run them.

I had a coach chirp after a call a few games ago, wanting an explanation (which is fine) but he was a bit more animated than I think is appropriate. First opportunity I went and explained what I had ("coach, i saw the push off, but i had the block first" or something like that). A play later we were shooting freethrows and he was still asking about hte prior play, looking a little agitated. I went over, with a smile, and said "coach, you asked for an explanation, i gave you one, lets move on. i dont want any more theatrics, ok?" gave him a smile and a look of seriousness, just as nice as could be. worked great. didnt hear a word out of him again that game. he did, respectfully, ask for an explanation later in the game and he got one.

Here is the story: notoriously difficult boys coach is doing his normal thing--stormiing up and down and fussing about all the calls. early in quarter 1 he says "that was a horrible call!" talking to me about my partner's call (typical coach move). i was trail on his side and i say "coach, i think thats enough." he waves me off and says "you guys are terrible." Tweet. That was T number 1. I go report it. I have my partner advise to the assistant that head coach has lost the box. So then middle of quarter 2 and head coach is up. I'm trail. I swing to his side when possible and say "coach, you gotta sit down," he ignores me. [yes, i could have just T'd him there]. I say again "you gotta sit down". He storms off down the baseline and says "I'm not listening to you." Tweet. There is the 2nd one. Ok, maybe I over did it but I also gave a "eject" by pointing to the sky. I went to report (should have let my partner report, perhaps, but the result would be the same). As I am at the table calmly reporting: "T, white head coach, that is the second, he is ejected, count it as a team foul.." the head coach walks between me and the table as I am reporting and says "you guys are terrible!" (apparently his favorite quote). Tweet, that's number 3 (he's bench personnell, so it went indirectly against the assistant who is now head coach by virtue of me tossing the coach). That was all before the half.

I'm sure everyone's got their T stories. I bet Mark and JP and Nevada and Snaq and tomegun and company have more than their share. Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread with "whack a coach" stories. :)

Can't agree with your supervisor's supposed response in #2, Ben. Saying what you wrote is the same as the supervisor basically telling the coach that the "T"s weren't really warranted in the first place. That's not backing his official imo; it's more like telling the coach that the official isn't really ready yet. Backing the official is simply telling the coach that he got out of line, he took his chances, and he lost because he had an official with a low tolerance level for unsporting behavior. D1 officials have different tolerance levels, the same as high school officials. Any coach at either level that's half-smart picks up quickly in any particular game what he can and can't get away with.

Having said that, my personal preference is young/new officials that show that they aren't afraid to take care of bidness. Learning to adapt and maybe use alternate methods to control the game comes with experience. When I see a young/new official that refuses to take care of bidness though, I always have that doubt whether he/she will ever develop that <b>necessary</b> quality.

Jmo.

I don't agree with two things there, but that's just me. ;)

Very valid point Jurassic. In my scenario, I really meant it as an off the hook type deal with your supervisor, not so much what the advisor would say to the coach, cause I, as an assignor, would certainly not say that to a coach.

You're also exactly right about handling your business as well. One of my assignors tries to keep me in check by letting me know that he doesn't mind me handing out T's but that I just need to make sure that I don't use it as a defense mechanism but more as a tool of the trade and he understands that I will use it more in my young age because of me not having his level of communication skills yet.

Now fellas...I'm not as young as some of our posters here...I'm 35 and have been officiating as a hobby at the MS/JRHS level now for 7+years...I had my IHSAA license for about 4-5 years and let it lapse cause I was not working any HS stuff....less the summer league/AAU Frosh stuff I work. I'm probably going to retake the test next year and make the jump...we'll see....

With that said, I take whatever games I'm doing seriously and work hard for the players and coaches to give my best every game...I've been asked by some of my peers who do HS ball (one who has 27+ years and works the JV/V Parochial schools in Indy and some NCAA) to move up and take games on (his exact words to me two years ago were "We need good young officials) but I really have not had the desire until this year.... I don't know why...

Regarding my OP....It was just really out of charater for me to respond the way I did to this particular guy, so I was venting and I guess admitting that there are times when we are faced with things that really rub us the wrong way (like the 3rd grade girls coach who used the term "rape" during one of my games) and you gotta stay cool and professional....

I really appreicate all the feedback and constructive criticism that I get here....That's why I post here, to share, learn, lend input and hopefully lend some help to those who are younger than me! ;)

Didn't pass on a T and know why!
 

Tonight, JV game, both coaches are demonstrative and have lots to say in a close game. However, late in the 3rd period, when the home coach said, "c'mon ref, there's blood under the basket from so much hacking going on." He got whacked and wore his seat belt the rest of the night. Never heard another peep out of him. And his team came back and won going away..... I let em chirp, but only to a point......as I thought he had overstepped the line and was trying to show us up.

3? :confused:

Mregor