I'm moving:(
 

Well, this summer my wife is taking a job in the Portland area which will require me to move and pass the Oregon Bar. How does one become an official in the state of Oregon?

This looks like a good place to start bud....

http://www.pboa.org/

I swear there's more Oregonians around here than anything else.:p

rainmaker, Tim Taylor, and even Padgett!!!, plus some others who I am forgetting at the moment, are all up there. I'm sure that they will direct you properly.
You might be heading into a very positive situation. :)

Then again considering the people who are there...:D

Hey, I may become better!!!

If you are going there, better brush up on pasting google images. And the #1 rule on officiating is a bonus question in Oregon, I think.

I'll be changing my email add in the next month or two, but pm me when you're ready to move and I'll help you get in touch with the inimitable, incomparable local bball ref god, Howard (how do I add reverb?). And Padgett will hook you into some very good (or really bad, if you want!) rec stuff. Wa-hoo! Welcome to the wet side!

Thank you, I plan on moving no later than June.

Get here in time for the Rose Festival. There's nothing as Portland as sitting through a really class A parade in the rain.

Isn't rainy season from June 14-June 13th?

Bud,

What Juulie said...drop one of us a line & we'll get you in touch with the right folks.

You can also go to http://www.reftown.com and then select PBOA from the list of associations, then find contact & registration info in the "Public" directory.

You might also want to check out http://oreofficials.org/ - Jack, the executive director, is also a local attorney & might have other valuable info regarding the logistics of the rest of your move.......

Our annual Rain Festival runs from Jan 1 through Dec 31 each year. Last year, 418 Oregonians fell off their bicycles - and drowned!

Actually, having grown up in Chicago, I can tell you rain is much easier to deal with than snow.

Bud - do you know yet where you're going to live? Email me and I can "give you the layout" of the town, schools, shopping, etc. Plus, I have a personal friend who is a great realtor if you need one. Don't hold it against him that he and his daughter are also coaches. ;) BTW - there are some townhome units in my development that are for sale. And no, it has nothing to do with living near me. :p

My email is [email protected]

Oh yeah - I know some attorneys (no, not because of that) so I may be able to help you get a job. At least, I can give you some leads.

Other important Portland information.

At least a time or two, you need to watch Perry Mason re-runs at noon. It's been on continuously since whenever Perry Mason started back in the '50s.

You'll also want to carefully choose your county of residence. The political lawn signs are a good indication where the county lines are.

Start now following the Trailblazers. They may fall apart later, but if they don't you'll want to be conversant with the details of this season.

Portland has the most stable home prices in the country right now, so be prepared to pay full price. You probably won't be able to take advantage of the big foreclosure boom.

Most of all, learn to say, "It's just a sprinkle, what's a little bit of rain?" Anyone that ever complains about the rain is automatically tagged as an outsider. YOu decide whether you want to be a native or a permanent visitor.

We drink milkshakes here, not frappes. We have potluck dinners, not covered dish dinners or carry-ins. We carry purses, not handbags or pocketbooks. And we drink pop, never soda. We go to the beach, not the shore, and we have El Ninos and El Ninas. And the hottest political issues are land use planning, water rights, land use planning, smokers' rights, land use planning and let's see, oh yea, land use planning.

If you're already doing college ball, you won't have any trouble breaking into it after a year or two. They always welcome a new person with skills, at least at the CC and NAIA level. But no matter how much experience you have, you won't get any varsity your first year. It just doesn't happen.

Sounds like Oregon is the place for me!! Thanks for your help

Guess that explains the fishnets.

So if someone moved to Portland after doing playoffs and/or state finals in another state they wouldn't have a full varsity schedule?

Is there a transfers scrimmage or anything like that? That is pretty rough. You are shattering my dream of working for Nike when I retire (for the first time). :D

You could interleave your college games with those freshman girls games for a season or two. After all, retirement should be about taking it easy, shouldn't it? :D

Juulie is correct about land use planning. I was a volunteer for four years on my county's Planning Commission and twelve years on my city's Planning Commission, the last five years as President. Compared to the screamers I had to put up with at public hearings, coaches are a piece of cake. We call those people NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard). It seems everyone here wants to live on a cul-de-sac backed up to a national forest. Oh yeah - and with gates.

Frankly, it's a good thing you're not moving here from California. You'd be tarred and feathered. Our official state motto is: "Don't Californicate Oregon". :D

Juulie's also right about Perry Mason. A local channel has been running it M-F at noon for about 40 years. Whenever anyone asks them when they'll stop, they say "when people stop watching". Actually, it's pretty comforting to have something like that you can rely on every day. And...the acting wasn't half bad.

I've been trying for a number of years to get the HS band director to feature the Perry Mason theme in one of their concerts. But, unlike Perry, I have not won that case.

Right now, we are looking at houses in Beaverton.(SP) I guess that's like 10 miles away from Portland.

Well, you certainly picked the right general area, IMO. I might suggest you also look one town to the south in Tigard, where I live. The neighborhoods are just as nice and the tax rate is way lower. Remember, although there is no sales tax in Oregon, we do have a property tax.

Also, Beaverton probably grows the prettiest girls (except for Juulie, of course, who grew up in Portland). My wife grew up in Beaverton and, two years after HS, was Miss Beaverton in the Miss Oregon pageant.

Hey - you didn't think I'd marry some woofer, did you? ;)

Beaverton is also home to the Tualatin Hills Officials Assn. They're probably the largest rec assn. in the state. They work bazillions of kids and adult rec games. If you want, I'm sure you can work our kids rec league here in Tigard even if you live in Beaverton. We have a couple of guys who do that.

just remember, you won't be able to pump your own gas.

Not only won't you be "able to" - it's actually illegal if you do. Gotta love a state in which it's illegal to pump your own gas but it's legal to assist a suicide for medical reasons. Actually, I like both laws. :)

Oh yeah - marijuana is "almost" legal, too. Why do you think guys like to be drafted by the Blazers? ;)

It's illegal to pump your own gas?

Wow.........

Oregon and (I think) New Jersey. The only reason to keep the law is to prevent the loss of jobs if stations were allowed to go self-service. I think it's hilarious.

Mark, how do you teach your kids to pump gas? Or do you just tell them never to get gas outside of Oregon? :)

They get jobs at service stations. DUH!

Whoever the decision makers are in the Portland area are need to revisit this decision. That is a terrible policy. Plenty of people with the ability to work at the HS V level move every year and to have a blanket policy that they will not do V games is, IMO, just plain stupid. Portland risks losing talented transferring officials if they keep this policy.

One of my neighbors works across the Columbia in Vancouver, WA. He makes sure he stops on the Oregon side of the river to get gas. Of course, he doesn't buy anything on the Washington side to save the sales tax, too.

Actually, there is a situation here in Oregon in which you pump your own gas. It's at those commercial card-lock stations. That's the only place, however.

BTW - every time someone tries to get the law changed, they get smacked upside the head by all the Fire Marshals in the state.

Yea, tell it to the judge.

Mark, one thing I forgot to mention in the list of political hot points was the kicker. How could I, at this time of year? Bud will definitely need to be brought up to date on that little doozy!

For inquiring minds, the "kicker" is a tax situation here in Oregon. At the end of the year, the state decides if there is a surplus of collected taxes (the amount of the surplus is stated in the statute). If there is, taxpayers receive a "kicker" check with their share of the surplus, just like getting an "extra" tax refund. I love getting mine. There are many people in Oregon who think the state should keep the money since it's already been collected and spend it on programs such as schools and other people-centric services. However, there are those that think that if the state budgets so much and collects more, there should be a refund, just like the normal refunds we get if we overpay as an individual. Not only that, but you can volunteer to have the state keep your kicker if you want.

Personally, I support the kicker. I feel an analogy would be going into a store and buying something that costs $15. If you give the clerk a $20 bill, you expect $5 change. Oh yeah - your change would be exactly $5 in Oregon because we have no sales tax. YIPPEE!!! :)

What is the highest the kicker has ever been?
My state of residence is Alaska so I'm somewhat familiar with getting money back. The most I ever got was $995, but it got to around $2k at one point.

It's a percentage of how much you paid in the first place. Although I think there might be an upper cap? I'm not sure about that. I'll never get into that bracket! We also found out the hard way this year that if they think you owe them money, even if you don't, they'll keep the kicker and apply it to their supposed debt. We're going to have to fight that one out this month. Ours would have been around $500.

Mine was almost $700 this year. I spent it all on sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, but without the sex or the drugs. :p

Seriously? Unreal.

Officiating in some areas is very provincial. I know of two professional minor league baseball umpires who are not yet allowed to work Varsity games in their home association suring school season. Unfortunately "time-in" is valued more than ability by some associations.

Experience
 

On our local board, the season in which you pass the written exam and the floor exam, doesn't count as a year. You must work at least three years of only junior varsity ball to move up. You must work at least three years of "split" ball, a combination or junior varsity and varsity games, to move up. Finally, after working at least three years of "split" ball, you can move up to full varsity, i.e all varsity games. So in reality, no matter how good your peer ratings, and rankings, are, you can't get a full varsity schedule until your seventh (or eighth including your first "probation" year) year.

It didn't effect me. I took me four years to make "split", and four more years to make full varsity, two years more than the minumum.

Note: We have over 280 officials, 85 are considered full varsity, 30 are considered "split". We service about 70 high schools, most with both boys and girls programs, as well as many freshman programs, and many middle school programs.

Pathetic. Systems such as this exist to protect those on top instead of instead of developing and utilzing better officials.

This system would prohibit a retired NCAA D-1 Final Four experienced official from working varsity for seven years. Incredible.

No, it keeps them from having all-varsity for 7 years. They get SOME varsity after 4 years. I wonder how good a retired NCAA D1 ref would be at HS varsity. Personally, I'd rather have those folks take a year or to to "adjust down" to a different set of expectations. Although I expect 4 years may be a bit too long.

Juulie - do you think Howard would give Joey Crawford some varsity games if he retired and moved to Portland? :confused:

WOW! Joey Crawford working HS. I'd pay to see that. Can't you just see him working an Oregon City girls game!

I'd like to see him tangle with Doherty at OC. THAT would be interesting. Or that %^&&( at Hillsboro. I'd bet on tossing him in about a minute and a half.

Don't drink the kool-aide. Any system that rigidly enforces the one size fits all "time-in-grade" as the one we are discussing, and is not flexible enough to consider talent and the reality that not all officials develop the same or transfer with the same experience and ability, exists to protect those on top of the pecking order, who, normally, have the votes on the board to keep it in place.

One of my proudest moments when I was a first time board member in the local baseball association was to help kill a similar restriction that had been in place for years, even though I was one of the senior officials being protected.

We now evaluate all transfers and assign them to the appropriate level. Before that, we had professional umpires restricted to JV games.

We also recognize that not all officials develop at the same rate. Some might need seven years of training, growth and experience to work a full varsity level. Most don't.

There are a number of good NCAA officials who began their college career within five years of working high school ball.

As far as your argument of taking time to "dial it down", many D-1 officials concurrently work a few high school games during their season. They know how to dial it down.

PLEASE don't resurrect that old ghost. Pulleeeezzzeeeee.....

I didn't say I approved of this system. I just was pointing out that your 7 year rule wasn't entirely correct.

I agree with your effort. It makes the most sense to judge people based on their abilities rather than their "years in".
Right, but then they're in that hs association and won't need 7 years to get full varsity schedules. I also know that at least some D-1 assignors won't let their people work hs games. But in our association, D-1 refs can maintain their membership (time-in) and thus be eligible for varsity games as soon as they're allowed to take them.

And the rest, you squandered, I suppose.

This system is absurd, especially for developing refs. It discourages young officials from taking the time on their own to go to camps, work hard in the offseason and do the things that they need to do to improve their game because outside of college, there really is nowhere to go. As a result, your association loses all of its up and comers completely to college ball and when your varsity guys start to get old, there's a huge shortage of quality officials. I'd be interested to see how many of the 80 or so varsity guys are really too old to be doing V ball and are hanging on too long. That type of situation IMHO does not respect the game of basketball or the avocation of officiating.

We are living in America, where we are supposed to award ability, hard work and achievement. Your system penalizes officials for possessing those qualities and ultimately hurts your association as it denies you top officials and discourages offseason improvement.

Every association should have 2 goals: 1) service the game of basketball by matching the best crew of available officials on each game and 2) service its officials by matching them on games and with partners that allow them to develop and improve. Your group's system does neither.

The Whole Story
 

I'm not going to comment on the good, or bad points, or our local system, mainly because I'm not familiar with how other local boards, or associations, work their systems. But I will reply to the quote above, because my post was simply in regard to the minimum number of years required to get to a certain level of games, and I didn't give Forum members the whole story.

Within each level (junior varsity, "split", full varsity) there are rankings that determine the number of games that you will be assigned. A junior varsity official may receive anywhere from 6 to 27 games a season depending on their ranking. A "split" official may receive anywhere from 14 to 22 junior varsity games, and from 4 to 12 varsity games a season depending on their ranking. A full varsity official may receive anywhere from 8 to 43 varsity games a season depending on their ranking.

Rankings are determined mainly by peer ratings. Rankings also depend, in a smaller part, on refresher exam scores, attendance at meetings, and availability to officiate.

Officials on our local board take time on their own to go to camps, work hard in the offseason, and do the things that they need to do to improve their game, because they want their peer ratings to improve, to improve their assigned schedule, and also, want to move up to the next level. Officials who do not work hard to improve their game, will see their peer ratings drop, and not only will their assigned games decrease, they may also fall far enough in the rankings to drop from full varsity to "split", or from "split" to junior varsity only. Our former assigner used to say that a varsity official on our local board is not like a Supreme Court Justice or the Pope. Varsity officials are not varsity officials for life. They must prove their worth every season, or low peer ratings will lead to low rankings, which may lead to a lower level assigned schedule.

I am amazed at what some associations do. The malcontents in my association should read how these others do it and then they might complain less. I have a very good friend who did the 5A boys championship at the end of his 3rd season and was working D1 the next year. Good thing for him he lives around me instead of Portland or Ct. I will admit that he is an exception to what most people do, but guys like him do come around.

Get the best officials on the court.

Just because a young official is working at the college or pro level doesn't mean that the individual does a superior job to the more senior official who is only working the local HS games.
There are many reasons that upper level assignors hire young officials. One of the most obvious is that he is betting on their development. He gives them a chance to gain experience while working with some of the folks on his staff and waits to see what happens. The belief is that these individuals have time to progress and the assignor will take the chance that if he starts them early enough and provides opportunities they may pan out, while this is not the case with the older person.

Age has nothing to do with my argument. Many of our rookies are over 40. Some of best officials are inder 30.

I agree with Stripes....

Put the best officials on the court.

I"m not sure why you put Portland on this list. People move up based on their ability in Portland (mostly). Some faster than others. Just because a brand new person to our area can't get any varsity games in their first year in Prtoalnd doesn't mean that we aren't judged by out ability.

But I do think it's a little unfair to guys and gals who've been around forever in the association, moving up, getting better, being top officials and then to get bumped off the championship for some upstart hotshot. I disagree with never moving people up but there are top officials who deserve chamionship games and are good enough (ie as you say, get the best officials on the court) who can be overlooked when there's just a totally open system.

Juulie - who runs the association in Prtoalnd - Wdrhao? :confused:

And is "out ability" something that there's not anything wrong with? ;)

Well at least there seems to be a mechanism in place for quality control among the veterans, but if that's the case, why not put something in place that allows up and coming officials to work-in? If you are already ranking officials, why not just do away with the illogical, predefined "seniority" categories and just rank or categorize officials based on ability? Experience can certainly be taken into account here, as well as by the assignor. Seems to me like you have bureaucratically imposed glass ceilings, your best JV official might in reality rank in the top 25 overall officials, but it will still be no less than 4 years before he gets a full varsity schedule. That makes no sense.

While I'm at it, why would someone classified as a "full varsity official" only get 8 games??? If their ranking is that bad, why not lower their status? I still don't get this system, and in an era where there is a shortage of officials, why would you put in place a system that doesn't reward achievement?

I think that this is a great point that is missed by a lot of up and coming officials. Just because one person is working college and another isn't, that does not mean that the college guy is the better ref and it definitely doesn't mean that the college ref is more qualified to work a specific assignment. In postseason assignments especially, experience is very important, and the hot shot younger ref might not be right for the game.

At the same time, younger refs have a huge advantage in getting picked up because they are easier to mold and have far more potential.

The era doesn't matter. If there's a plethora of officials in that area, there could be lots of different systems to hold people back. Not saying that's the case in Billy's area, but here in Portland, we have lots and lots of officials, and many of them are very qualified. So it's really hard for a really good person to move up because that displaces other really good officials. It's hard to find a system that will balance out all the various "fair" considerations.

Juulie, do you guys do a transfer scrimmage or anything? I'm still having a hard time understanding how your system allows people to "move up" based on their ability, but then you say that someone will not get varsity games their first year.
Being in the military has caused me to move around more than I would have liked. Every time I go to a new place I hear guys complaining about someone "new" getting playoff games and/or assignments for good games. I'm not new to high school basketball and I have paid more dues that most officials would believe. Are you saying that someone in my situation has no chance of working what they normally work - varsity - because they are new to your area regardless of their experience and abilities?
Without knowing your system or the people who put it into place, I would say a system like this is run by someone who is scared of losing games. As an association it is always a good thing to get better and limiting what officials are on a game based on how long they've been in the area doesn't help the association improve.
I was on the board in Las Vegas and there were times when I went to the assignor and told him that an official needed to be moved up. I just don't get this mentality. Fortunately for me, my next move will probably be my last move and it will more than likely be to a location I've been to before.

No it's not. It's easy to find the systmen that works. It's hard to convince the good ol' boys to implement it.

In reality, what could be better than an assocation being able to train every official to be a top rated official? Shouldn't that be our goal? I realize that in practice it will never happen, really, shouldn't it be our goal. To do otherwise is to say we don't want all of our officials to be good.

To work in any area that believes it has an over-abundance of top officials, the system simply has to share the games. No one gets a 100% varsity only schedule. Everyone who has the ability and experience to work Varsity would get some games.

But those at the top now are too invested in having full Varsity seasons and they will fight to keep their games.

It comes down to the fundamental purpose of an association.

I'm pretty sure I saw a first year transfer working varsity games his first year in our association (Portland). I know he's working top varsity games this year (his second year here), but I'm not sure if he has a varsity only schedule or not. I saw him work last year and was incredibly impressed. He is young, in great shape and was an outstanding official.

Garth, I somewhat agree with you. Saying there is no way someone who is new will get varsity games is another way to hold people back. I don't understand your statement about nobody getting 100% varsity games. Why do you say that? Are you assuming that there wouldn't be enough varsity games for all varsity officials to get them?
Since working my way up to varsity, I have been in this situation three times and every time the complaints concerning me made it seem like I just started officiating when I arrived at the new location. The complaints really didn't slow me down because I worked hard to get where I'm at and I have a passion for continually improving and doing a good job. I would have a problem with a system like the one in Portland. How should I feel if the official working in front of me is better than me or just as qualified? I would wonder what kind of system I was working with.

Smitty is my hero. :D

(inside joke) :p

I was going off Juulie's post.

It most areas, that will not have to be the case, but if in Portland, there really are so many top officials that moving someone up "displaces" a good official already there, sharing games is the answer.

Here in Missouri, you have to prove yourself to work a varsity games. If I have to do that in Portland, then I have no choice. I just need to get my foot in the door. I'm sure that the higher people don't really care about what I did in Missouri until I can prove them. And I hope I can do some V games within 2 years of living up in Oregon

So 10 years from now Ed Hightower stops officiating D-I games because his body can no longer keep up with the speed of the game and moves town. He calls up an assignor on the phone asking to work some games.

ED: Hi, I'm Ed Hightower. I worked 11 D-I Final Four tournaments. Can I work varsity games for you this Winter?
ASSIGNOR: Sorry Ed, you'll have to hone your skills for 3 years working underclass games before I can trust you on a varsity game.
ED: But I was named the D-I men's official of the year in 1992, I know how to officiate. There is no way I should not have a full varsity schedule.
ASSIGNOR: Ed, you won't be able to get a full varsity schedule for 7 years.
ED: I worked 7 consecutive D-I Final Four tournaments. Doesn't that count for anything?
ASSIGNOR: No, skill isn't really important when it comes to who receives which games. Much more important is how long you have been around.
ED: I have been around for a long time. I worked D-I games for 30+ years.
ASSIGNOR: Well I was only talking about how long you have been around this area.
ED: So the 4th year official who has worked 85 games is higher up than me? I've worked more D-I post season tournament games than that.
ASSIGNOR: In this area having 85 underclass games under your belt counts for more than a few thousand D-I games when it comes to working varsity.


Stop denying it, the system used in your area is a complete joke. As Garth said, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. It isn't hard at all to find a good system. The goal of the system should be to put the best officials on the court (through training, evaluating, and proper assigning) instead of trying to find arbitrary reasons for holding someone back.

That's the best attitude to take. You can only take care of your business. You can't fret over what you cannot control.

I don't know of any association that refuses to put good officials on the court. A place will be found for them. I do know of plenty that make people wait a year or so before getting the premium assignments or postseason in the new area to appease the longtime locals. I am also aware that many local groups tend to keep the tenured guys around far longer than they should. That's a quite common, but unfortunate, necessity at the high school level as officials are in limited supply and without a bunch of people knocking down the door to work HS games in a particular area retaining a core group of people who may be past their prime but are sure to be in the area from year to year and can do a satisfactory, if not great, job is a reasonable strategy. It logically follows that these folks will receive better assignments than they would otherwise deserve in a true merit system in order to keep them happy and enabling the assignor to rely upon their service.

Not saying that I like it, but I understand that that is just the way it is.

All of this makes me damn glad I don't have to deal with all of the association noise.

Don,

Having moved from Kansas this summer to a state with an association and a ranking system based on test scores, peer evaluations, and other factors, I've got to disagree with you. I loved my time there, and had some good opportunities early in my career to do V games, but there is no doubt that Kansas really is an "old boys" network in a lot of areas, as well as in post-season assignments. I've found this association, with pretty clear rules and processes for assigning games, to be quite refreshing. I haven't done a bit of pandering, don't have to call every AD in the area trying to get games, and don't have to worry about pissing off any coaches...

Any state where coach recommendations carry the predominant weight in making post-season assignments just doesn't make sense to me...

I can see that there are some benefits to an association I'm sure, but I guess my vision about the whole thing s skewed. All of my VERY limited knowledge of how associations work is limited to what I've read on this board as well as browsing some websites. All I hear is griping and chirping about "good old boys" in associations as well. All I know is Kansas, so I guess I'm used to doing the legwork that a lot of you are paying the association to do for you. I've only had one time where I believe a coach has cost me games (this was in JUCO baseball, an event that still haunts me to this day, but that's another story).

While I agree that I do not have the training many of you have, as well as the large network of officials to trade war stories with, help with critiquing my game, and other things, I'm happy without the many hassles a lot of the big city guys have. I guess I'm "small town" that way.:p I'll never stand firm that one way is better as I have minimal information as to how the association guys operate, I'm just speaking basically from what I know. Reading here has helped a ton in some areas, especially with queestions that I'd never dream up on my own that would probably bite me in the butt later. I try to do my homework, do the best job I can, and let that take me as far as it may. I can truly say that it's nice being in an area where I can pick and choose my schedule and have AD's coming for more.:p

The four year wait isn't in my area. I wasn't defending it. I just said it didn't take 7 years to get some varsity. Sheez, read what I wrote, for pete's sake. And stop using that K-word. It evokes very bad images...

Nobody said anything about "arbitrary reasons for holding someone back". You're twisting my words. There are more than two possibilities here, either a really good system that puts the best people on the court, or a really bad system where everyone is treated unfairly. Our system in Portland (not the one that Billy described with the 4 year wait) has it's good points and it's bad points just like every other system in the country.

There are definitely some benefits to the system - or lack thereof - in Kansas as well, I won't deny that! I would have had a full V schedule for the first time this year had I stayed - finally would have been in the same area for a couple years.

As for being "small town", I am very much that way, and am fortunate to be in a fairly rural area here in South Carolina. The biggest difference from my time in Kansas is that, while all I work are small towns right now (one school in 4-A around here, all others are 1- and 2-A), there is a small town about every 10 miles here. I worked 21 JV and V games in three weeks in November and December and didn't ever travel more than 30 miles. Having worked NW, NC, and NE Kansas, I've got to say this is nice! :D

Oh, and as for the griping and chirping, this wouldn't be an officiating site without it, would it?!? :rolleyes:

You could be right, Dave. I was just stating a generality that I know to be true. Transfers generally DON'T get varsity games their first year. I thought no one did, but I don't know everyone.

I'm also a little surprised at the reaction my statement got. Good grief, it was just a generalization from one middle level ref to an unknown ref from across the country. We don't have a policy against transfers getting varsity, I don't think. I really don't know what would happen if Ed Hightower showed up and wanted to work some 1A girls' varsity games.

It also looks as though the various "systems" and structures that are in place in different areas are affecting people's perceptions of what I said. Just for the record, here's a more detailed description of how our association looks from my vantage point.

We have about 325 refs to cover about 7000 games per season (our association handles ONLY school ball and only during the season). Of those, a few (10?) do mostly college and get only a very few hs games, like 5 or 10, all varsity. They stay in the association to "give back" and to maintain their hs eligibility. Then there are another number (20? 25?) who do some college and some hs. These folks probably do mostly varsity, but even they aren't guaranteed exclusively varsity. I don't know for sure, but I expect most of them will end up doing at least one or two JV or freshman games, just for the convenience of the assignor.

Then there is another number of refs who do only or largely hs and lower, and are the top-ability-refs other than the college folks. THese refs will do 2 or 3 varsity games a wekk at most, but if they want more games, or have more availability, it won't come to them in varsity games. There's almost no one in our association who does exclusively varsity. And I've worked freshman and even ms games with college/hs refs who were helping out the assignor in an emergency. No one gets to say, "I don't do that."

On the other hand, when someone is moving up, and is on the verge of becoming a really top official, he or she can quickly be getting some of the best varsity games, if able and willing. But because there are so many really good officials (not just the ol' boys) there's always a lot of competition.

The unknown factor in the whole thing is our assignor. Our association doesn't "rank" or "grade" us. We are given games based on what our assignor knows about our abilities. This is a good system when you have an excellent assignor (which we do, I know, even though I don't always agree with how he does things), but can be very bad when all that power falls into the wrong hands.

Whether a transfer is given varsity games in the first year is totally up to our assignor, there's no hard rules about it. That might be good or bad, but it's how it is. Most transfers probably CAN'T prove their abilities in one scrimmage (yes we have that, tomegun), and I haven't known any transfers who got varsity their first year. But as Smitty said (same association) it may happen. I'm quite sure it's quite rare.

I expect of Ed Hightower showed up, yea he'd get varsity games, although frankly, I can't imagine him wanting them. We've got some pretty good teams around here, but it's still just high school. Besides, a year of sub-varsity might be good for the guy. Give him a chance to re-learn table management, talking to a newbie, two-whistle mechanics (used exclusively in Oregon) and a slower pace of game!

We do the same in northern VA. All "transfers" are evaluated (actual game evaluations - usually HS rec ball if off season) by some of the senior varsity officials. The system seems to work well as we have a number of military that officiate, and there is no shortage of military in the DC area.

You just reiterated my point.

I don't think it can be illustrated more plainly than that.

I'm not an evaluator nor am I qualified to be one. To measure the quality of an Official there seems to be (there might be other factors) four components:

Judgement
Rules Knowledge
Mechanics
Game Management

You can observe mechanics and you can test rules knowledge but judgement and game management are subjective. This is where the new (to the area) experienced guy has to prove himself. It might take a season to gain the trust of the assignor. Then again if you're battling the good ole boys............

Sorry, but I have to throw up the BS flag. The Cardinal board - yes I know too much about too many associations - is very much a good ole boy system. I know of several members who had varsity high school, college and military base-level experience, but couldn't get a varsity schedule in Northern Virginia. Why would "senior varsity officials" allow someone to come into their area and get some of their games.

Not many are in the situation that I've been in many times, but open your minds for a second. If someone like me moved to town, how would you classify me? Would I be a "senior varsity official" or a new guy? I'm not at the highest classification here in Mississippi, BUT you couldn't look at my schedule and tell it.

I was initially held back when I got to the DC area. I was given one JV game without any more for the future. Some of the local guys already knew me because I had attended a JUCO camp before moving there, got hired and worked some rec ball for the rec assignor. With nothing to lose, I went dual (IAABO area) and went to a scrimmage for another assignor. I had to drive almost an hour in the cold and I worked for about 6 minutes of a 12-year old game with officials who just went through the training class. The assignor said thank you and told me he would be in touch. I was like, "What the heck?" The next day he called to give me my assignments, all varsity to include some Catholic league games which are the best high school games in the Washington DC area. Literally and hour later the first assignor called me to give me some games, all varsity. I was truthful with him, told him why I did what I did and I worked between the two to work my schedule out. The next year the rec assignor, who gave me games when I first got to town, became the high school assignor and wanted me exclusively. I wouldn't do it because the other assignor gave me high school games before anybody. There have been other guys on my original board who have attempted to go dual to get better/more games, but it hasn't worked out for them. My situation was unique because I didn't necessarily do it to get better games, I did it to get games period. During all this, the griping was concerning the fact that I was new and someone had been on the board for X amount of years. It was never once about my ability to work the games I was assigned. The current assignor in Mississippi has asked me to look at some officials to give my opinion on their ability to work varsity games.

I have been blessed to receive good training (from Arizona, Nevada, DC/Maryland and Mississippi), accept constructive critism and work hard. It would piss me off to move to an area and get assignments because I'm "new" to the area, but not nearly new to high school officiating. Trust me, there are better systems and I would like to think we would step up and say something if an official was blatantly getting less than they deserved simply because of their time in the local area.

I think certain people who don't live in Portland are over-generalizing the situation here. I'm quite certain that if someone transfers in here with an impressive resume including post season games and such, our assignor will be talking to that person's old assignor to find out if they are the real deal. I'm pretty sure that person will be looked at early and given varsity games quickly here. However, just because you worked varsity games before won't and shouldn't guarantee you'll work varsity games when you transfer in. It may take you a year or two to get there, and if that makes you want to quit or find another assignor, I think you might be in this for the wrong reasons. There are literally hundreds of people who deserve to work varsity games here - too many to allow everyone get the games they think they deserve. You have to go through the system, just like everyone else. I've been in 5 associations around the country and the one here in Portland is by far the best and most fair association I've ever worked for.

Tomegun - pick up your BS flag, as there is no BS. :rolleyes: I didn't say that all transfers were given a varsity schedule. I said all transfers were evaluated. They may or may not have been qualified for varsity. I have no idea why you were "held back". I transferred from Bull Run (where I worked some single A girls varsity) to Cardinal (after my son graduated from a school serviced by Cardinal), and I was evaluated. Cardinal has the "sub-varsity" (F/JV), the "swing", (mixture of JV/V), and "varsity" (predominately V). I was put on the "swing level", and for the first year or so, I got mostly F/JV games -- I think I got 8 or 9 varsity games. The next year, I was elevated to varsity level. Even at the varsity level, I worked F/JV/V. On some nights, I would work a freshman game at one school and then work a varsity game at another school. Or, I might work the freshman game, sit out the JV game, and then work the varsity game at the same school. I did this because I was able to leave work for the early games (usually 4:00 - 4:30), and it helped the assignor. This being "helpful" usually resulted in being assigned to one of the "better" games sometime down the road. I was qualifed to do the game, and it pays to be available.:)

Here is what I love about our system. If an assignor likes you, they hire you. Of course they give the song and dance, "If you work my lower level games then you might get a shot......." That is really not true at all. If you can work and you go to camp and prove it, you will get hired if you have talent and someone sees it. I know a few people that transferred in and got varsity games right off the bat. There is nothing preventing someone from getting hired but the assignor and in some cases other officials that ask for a partner to come along. The only thing you might have a hard time to face is getting a playoff game and that is because the state runs that system and decides how much of your experience they will consider in that process. Or the state will decide how long it will take you to get promoted to the top level. And in many cases it takes those individuals a much shorter time to get to the Certified level (the highest level but not a requirement to work post season games). The more and more I read the happier that I am where I am.

Peace

I wasn't held back at all while I lived in the area. I just know of more than one official who wasn't given a schedule the goes along with their ability. Those officials would have been given varsity schedules in board 12 or 134.

Rut, I can tell you for a fact that you can add Southern Nevada, the DC area (except Northern Virginia) and Mississippi to areas similar to yours. If you can work, you work. The only thing different would be those areas handle playoffs differently from your area. I can see where things might slow down when because of the playoff system you have in place.
I must be fortunate to only be places where what I do on the floor matters the most. If someone came here and was qualified I would ask to work with them. Shoot, why shouldn't I? The assignor could make someone qualified the U2 on all my games and I would laugh all the way home. Why wouldn't I want to benefit from working with someone good?

The reason that is where I live, associations do not give games. If they do, they open themselves up for violating independent contractor laws and might be liable for more than they are willing to be. Assignors are hired by the conferences and if the assignor likes you, that is all that matters. What I am reading from this post is that these are policies from associations or groups of officials. And that lends to more rules that should not apply. Our local associations are for training and training only. Yes there are assignor that might attach themselves to an association closely, but there are no by-laws that dictate who works and when. There might be by-laws that affect membership, but membership in an association (or level of membership) does not affect how you are hired.

Peace

What Juulie siad is simply not true. In fact, I'm working a 6A Boys Varsity game this Friday with an official that moved to Portland this last summer.

What is true is that you can't have any Varsty games the first few weeks of the first season....mostly due to our consitutional membership criteria.

Here's our process:

1. All transfers will participate in a transfer scrimmage and assigned to a transfer training class.
2. The first few weeks of games will be JV or lower (depending on the scrimmage evaluation). A qualified transfer will likely be working mostly 5A/6A JV boys.
3. To work Varsity games, you have to be a "regular" member.
4. To become a regular member, they have to get 5 peer evaluations at any Freshman or higher game.
5. They then apply to the board for regular membership....which is mostly a formality and I know of no rejections for experienced transfers.

For a qualified transfer, they're almost always a regular member within 2-4 weeks of the start of the season. In fact, the commish usually schedules them for Varsity games in January anticipating they'll complete their "bookkeeping" requirements.

Most of that comes from people that would rather blame "good old boys" for thier lack of progress rather than get out and improve their game and earn their advancement. That's more of what I see here than actual "good old boys".

Absolutely.

Peace

I'm in Hillsboro...with abuts with Beaverton. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the area.

Hillsboro, OR?

I bought my 1994 Harley Fatboy from a guy that lived in Hillsboro, OR in 1998.

The dude hardly ever rode it...in fact, he kept it in his bedroom much of the time.

Those Hillsboro guys are a bunch of "pretty boys". :D

My favorite T-shirt in Portland said "We don't tan...we rust"

Does Hillsboro still have the "Hillsboro Happy Days" parade? I took a band to it when I taught in California in the summer of 1974, Hillsboro was in the country in those days.

Did he sell it for money to buy a dinette set?

Call it "good old boy", loyalty to a fault, comfortable with the devil you know etc. etc. you've worked with and seen work men/women scatched your head and wondered how in the hell they get this game? You've worked with or seen work men/women and said to yourself I can't believe so and so won't give them varsity games.

I was at a meeting, camp I don't remember which in which an assignor discussing on how to move up from underclass to varsity said I don't care if someone just moved into the area and did the state tourney final the first year he/she won't get varsity games. Not wanting varsity games from this particular assignor I asked "so if Hugh Hollins (I think that's his name) a NBA Ref moved into the area and wanted to work you wouldn't give him a varsity game. The reply I received ... next question.

Some complaints are legit and some are excuses as much as we want it to be life is not fair. That's just the way it is.

Where's the Appy State Score:D

Just having some fun.

How to you think I got my name! :p

That's the one.
You've not seen me then!!! :eek: I really doubt "pretty" is often used in connection with me.

I think so. I know i"ve heard of it and I only moved here in the 90's....and there are now about 80k people in Hillsboro now...its developed a lot.

I'm from the show me state. We need to see proof you can officiate rather than your word.

You have to at the very least beat us before you can talk crap. I told you this at the meeting I am telling you this now. Score more than 10 points against USC before you talk. ;)

Peace

I would have no problem with this at all. If someone gives me a fair evaluation and I don't stack up to the varsity officials then I would have nobody to blame but myself.

This system makes sense to me and I would have no problem with this.

Of course I have seen that. That does not mean that there is a master plan to keep other officials out of the loop either. I also see a lot of sophomore officials (who are supposed to be the next in line) and I wonder how could they even handle varsity game if someone in my game does not show up? I do not see a lot of officials on the cusp that are not getting opportunities. I might work with a couple of people that I wonder why they are there, but I am not seeing many that are really ready to step in either. If you are going to replace the old guard, you have to have people to replace them too.

And that is that particular assignor. That does not mean that there are others that share that opinion. As a matter of fact if that was the case, I would have not worked varsity my first year in the Chicago area and two assignors gave me a good handful right off the bat and I had previous varsity experience. And also realize that some of them say one thing to not keep up the expectations of most, and when they find an official that is clearly qualified they pick them up. I work in a couple of leagues now the assignor claimed it would take years to get in their league regardless of your experience and ability. Then when I went to their camp, I was picked up immediately. And I know someone right now that camp into town about two years ago and worked varsity off the bat as well.

One of the problems in our area is that officials often put all their eggs in one basket. They only want to work for a couple of guys that are close to them. If they tried to look at a broader area, they might not work more of a varsity schedule than they currently do. The best examples are guys directly inside of Chicago. Many of these guys only want to work one of the two leagues in the city limits. If they were willing to go outside of the city limits, they could easily work other games. But in many of their minds working 10 miles outside of the city is "too far" and they do not get games they would ordinarily be available for. Many times it is self-inflected on what they can or cannot do. And let us face it; all officials are not qualified to work a freshman game, let alone a varsity contest. And many of those officials are almost never realistic with what they can or cannot do.

Peace

And what is the actual record between OSU and UM for the same ten years you reference?

You stated..."I was initally held back when I got to the DC area." That's why I stated what I did. I agree with that some officials fared better in the District (and possibly in MD), than VA. I specifically remember a JV official that couldn't advance past the JV level (decent official that never really tried to get better), went into the District (he actually worked in the District) and received nothing but varsity games. Go figure.

I don't know, Camron, I'm always sort of envious of that pretty, shiny pate of yours!

Also, thanks for correcting me about the transfers getting varsity. But even with what you said, it doesn't happen often. I know several people who were getting solid top level varsity schedules in their previous areas and didn't get any varsity in Portland for a year or two. People who really were good enough. I just didn't want Bud to think it would be automatic .

Getting back to the OP
 

Bud - are you "in town" now? I'm working this Saturday at Beaverton HS if you want to stop by.