traveling?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by footlocker

b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a
step;

A.R. 110. Is it traveling when a player (a) falls to the playing court while holding the ball; or (b) gains control of the ball while on the playing court and then, because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet? RULING: In (a), yes, because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the playing floor.

this indicates that a player can maintain a pivot while being on the ground. but nothing has explicitly said that this is a travel.

That is if he already had established one. You are missing that point.

[footlocker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is if he already had established one. You are missing that point.

okay, so then you are saying that if you have already established a pivot foot, you may go down and come up from one knee at will so long as you don't move your pivot. correct?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by footlocker

okay, so then you are saying that if you have already established a pivot foot, you may go down and come up from one knee at will so long as you don't move your pivot. correct?

That is an unfortunate consequence of an NCAA ruling which Mary Struckhoff authored a few years ago. I'm specifically talking about the going to a knee WITHOUT MOVING THE PIVOT. It started out as just applicable in the NCAAW game, but has now been included on the mens side of the written documentation (rulebook and casebook).

Since that time the NCAA has published the above posted A.R. 103 as it is currently numbered. It is my understanding that the directive to the officials on the court is to follow this and call a traveling violation. The key language is the "virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot" part.

So by the strictest theoretical interpretation of the rule, a player could do what you propose without traveling, but in practice the officials have been told to deem this a violation.

I'm sure that there have been other NCAA bulletins on this in the past few years. I'll check with some of the NCAA folks that I know and see what they provide in response.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm sure that there have been other NCAA bulletins on this in the past few years. I'll check with some of the NCAA folks that I know and see what they provide in response.

The NCAA seems to make a distinction between "falling to the floor" (travel) and "touching the floor with other than a hand or foot" (not a travel -- assuming the pivot foot doesn't move). Both of these situations are travelling in FED.

Rising from the floor, no matter how you got there or what body parts are touching, is travelling in both FED and NCAA.

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Rising from the floor, no matter how you got there or what body parts are touching, is travelling in both FED and NCAA.

Well put...I think that sums it up for all of us high school callers ... of course if you dribble throughout the entire process of going to the floor and coming back up - you are fine.

[footlocker]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The NCAA seems to make a distinction between "falling to the floor" (travel) and "touching the floor with other than a hand or foot" (not a travel -- assuming the pivot foot doesn't move). Both of these situations are travelling in FED.

Rising from the floor, no matter how you got there or what body parts are touching, is travelling in both FED and NCAA.

Thanks Bob.

I think that is the conclusion that I have come to as well.

[footlocker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So by the strictest theoretical interpretation of the rule, a player could do what you propose without traveling, but in practice the officials have been told to deem this a violation.

I'm sure that there have been other NCAA bulletins on this in the past few years. I'll check with some of the NCAA folks that I know and see what they provide in response.

Thanks Nevadaref. We are doing the same thing in my conference. This is a question that came up a couple weeks ago at a NAIA Tournament I was working. The crew going onto the floor brought it up to my crew after we finished our game. My first instinct was traveling, so I got into the NCAA rulebook and casebook 2007 & 2008. After recognizing what you posted I decided to see what this forum could provide. (I think this forum is great for officials to discuss situations and interpretations.)

Other NCAA guys from our conference that work all over D1 upto and including WNBA interpret the rule that a player can go down to a knee and rise so long as the pivot isn't moved. But I wanted to know about starting in that position. It seems that starting in that position would be different than going to one knee. NFHS is easy on this one.

Thanks again and let me know if you come up with anything on your end.

[Johnny Ringo]

The play in the OP is about a player gaining control of the ball while one knee is already on the ground and one foot ...

How about this situation:

A1 catches a pass ... left foot has been established as the pivot ... for whatever reason, A1 decides to drop to one knee (his right) while left foot remains stationary ... A1 then decides to stand upright again - removing his right knee off the ground ... legal or not?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

The play in the OP is about a player gaining control of the ball while one knee is already on the ground and one foot ...

How about this situation:

A1 catches a pass ... left foot has been established as the pivot ... for whatever reason, A1 decides to drop to one knee (his right) while left foot remains stationary ... A1 then decides to stand upright again - removing his right knee off the ground ... legal or not?

NFHS - Traveling.