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nukewhistle Sat Dec 29, 2007 04:43am

Last Sec Shot
 
I am the trail ref as A1 crosses the division line with 8 secs remaining,B1 steals the ball, crosses the division line and shoots the ball,the horn sounds off as I mark the three pt try at the free throw line extended area.The basket was good and I signal a successful three pt.try.

Should I have let the trail take the last sec shot? He was still in the backcourt.

Nevadaref Sat Dec 29, 2007 05:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukewhistle
I am the trail ref as A1 crosses the division line with 8 secs remaining,B1 steals the ball, crosses the division line and shoots the ball,the horn sounds off as I mark the three pt try at the free throw line extended area.The basket was good and I signal a successful three pt.try.

Should I have let the trail take the last sec shot? He was still in the backcourt.

Did you get the call right? ;)
Then the answer is no.

JugglingReferee Sat Dec 29, 2007 07:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukewhistle
I am the trail ref as A1 crosses the division line with 8 secs remaining,B1 steals the ball, crosses the division line and shoots the ball,the horn sounds off as I mark the three pt try at the free throw line extended area.The basket was good and I signal a successful three pt.try.

Should I have let the trail take the last sec shot? He was still in the backcourt.

Your concern is obviously resting with the issue should you have transfered authority to the T for judgment and mechanics on the last shot.

Because the crew was in transition, I think you handled it properly.

bob jenkins Sat Dec 29, 2007 09:30am

In "my" two-man games, I pre-game that if both officials are in the same 1/2 court as the ball, the T has the last shot.

If the officials are in different 1/2 courts, then the official in the 1/2 court from which the ball was shot has the responsibility. This covers the quick turnover (as in the OP) and the long "hail mary" pass.

In any event, if there's any doubt, then make eye contact (or meet) before making a signal.

Mark Dexter Sat Dec 29, 2007 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukewhistle
I am the trail ref as A1 crosses the division line with 8 secs remaining,B1 steals the ball, crosses the division line and shoots the ball,the horn sounds off as I mark the three pt try at the free throw line extended area.The basket was good and I signal a successful three pt.try.

Should I have let the trail take the last sec shot? He was still in the backcourt.

I think that, since you were in transition and were right by the shooter, you were correct to signal the shot.

That said, this is one of those situations you should pregame with your partners before every game.

Mark Dexter Sat Dec 29, 2007 09:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
In "my" two-man games, I pre-game that if both officials are in the same 1/2 court as the ball, the T has the last shot.

If the officials are in different 1/2 courts, then the official in the 1/2 court from which the ball was shot has the responsibility. This covers the quick turnover (as in the OP) and the long "hail mary" pass.

Bob, this may be the best, most concise way I've seen of determining who should take the shot.

26 Year Gap Sat Dec 29, 2007 09:41am

We also pre-game situations where there is one clock and it may not be visible to the trail. Had that situation last night, but we covered it and when there were last second attempts, we had them covered.

Kelvin green Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:50am

Bob said it well and I will add one thing...

If there is more than 3 seconds on the clock when the team has the ball Trail normally has the last second shot (trail can normally get to midcourt) if it is 2.9 or less split the court with trail taking shots from BC and lead FC

(from NBA officiating manual and works well)

bob jenkins Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvin green
Bob said it well and I will add one thing...

If there is more than 3 seconds on the clock when the team has the ball Trail normally has the last second shot (trail can normally get to midcourt) if it is 2.9 or less split the court with trail taking shots from BC and lead FC

(from NBA officiating manual and works well)

I used to use that, but:

1) Not all HS officials can get to midcourt
2) Not all HS players will perform as expected in the last 3.0 seconds

So, I just eliminated the "clock" aspect of it

Kelvin green Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:06am

Bob

I can definitely appreciate where you are coming from!

Adam Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:46am

There's an official here (30 year guy) who prefers to have the official with the ball/shot in his/her primary take the last shot. His thinking is that official will have a better view of the shot, and all three should be able to hear the horn equally well.

jdw3018 Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
There's an official here (30 year guy) who prefers to have the official with the ball/shot in his/her primary take the last shot. His thinking is that official will have a better view of the shot, and all three should be able to hear the horn equally well.

I know there are reasons for the official opposite the table, but I've also often wondered if those outweigh having the official who is on the ball take the shot. Why should the center (if he's opposite the table) be watching the guy taking the 24' 3-point attempt on the opposite wing if he's got lots of action in his area?

Snake~eyes Sat Dec 29, 2007 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
I know there are reasons for the official opposite the table, but I've also often wondered if those outweigh having the official who is on the ball take the shot. Why should the center (if he's opposite the table) be watching the guy taking the 24' 3-point attempt on the opposite wing if he's got lots of action in his area?

Because with 1 second on the clock, and a 24' 3 point attempt is where everyone sohuld be focused. What happens underneath is irrelevant.

jdw3018 Sat Dec 29, 2007 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes
Because with 1 second on the clock, and a 24' 3 point attempt is where everyone sohuld be focused. What happens underneath is irrelevant.

So when should all 6 eyes focus on the ball? With 1 second left? 3? When does play away from the ball become irrelevant?

tomegun Sat Dec 29, 2007 02:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
So when should all 6 eyes focus on the ball? With 1 second left? 3? When does play away from the ball become irrelevant?

IMO, this should only happen if the shot is taken in the paint and I would be careful then too. If a player takes a shot and the officials think it is time for all officials to look at the ball bad things could happen. Someone could get pushed under the basket allowing or denying an easy shot.

Snake~eyes Sat Dec 29, 2007 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
So when should all 6 eyes focus on the ball? With 1 second left? 3? When does play away from the ball become irrelevant?

The original situation was in a 4 eyes situation (2-man game), in a 3-whistle game there may be some situations where all 3 officials are watching the ball, but it is rare. In a 2-person game, there are going to be more situations where it is necessary for the other official to help. It can be tough for the trail alone to handle these last second situations. Not only does the trail have to determine if the bucket is good, but also if it was a 3, and if there is a foul on the play. The play becomes even more difficult when the player is very close to the line, and has a defender on him. Typical situations do not include these three variables, but it can happen, and partners should give help when this happens. JMO.

EDIT: Let me answer the first part of your question. If I am respoinsbile for the last second shot, and the ball is in my partner's primary area, I will watch my area, until I know that the clock sounding is imminent, then I must look at the shooter to deteremine if it was released prior to the horn. Yes, there is an obviosu weakness, as for approximately 1 second the post will be unwatched, but there isn't much you can do about it.

jdw3018 Sat Dec 29, 2007 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes
The original situation was in a 4 eyes situation (2-man game), in a 3-whistle game there may be some situations where all 3 officials are watching the ball, but it is rare. In a 2-person game, there are going to be more situations where it is necessary for the other official to help. It can be tough for the trail alone to handle these last second situations. Not only does the trail have to determine if the bucket is good, but also if it was a 3, and if there is a foul on the play. The play becomes even more difficult when the player is very close to the line, and has a defender on him. Typical situations do not include these three variables, but it can happen, and partners should give help when this happens. JMO.

EDIT: Let me answer the first part of your question. If I am respoinsbile for the last second shot, and the ball is in my partner's primary area, I will watch my area, until I know that the clock sounding is imminent, then I must look at the shooter to deteremine if it was released prior to the horn. Yes, there is an obviosu weakness, as for approximately 1 second the post will be unwatched, but there isn't much you can do about it.

I agree with most of what you say...but it's my point of discussion: why not let trail have the shot? The obvious is that you don't want any confusion in a gray area where both make the call. Any other reasons to alway have the official opposite the table?

Scrapper1 Sat Dec 29, 2007 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
I agree with most of what you say...but it's my point of discussion: why not let trail have the shot? The obvious is that you don't want any confusion in a gray area where both make the call. Any other reasons to alway have the official opposite the table?

IMHO, that's reason enough. If the final shot is taken in the paint, who has responsibility for it? No one will know!! But if you say the opposite official or the C has the last shot, then even in those situations that might be otherwise confusing, it will be clear who will make the call.

nukewhistle Sat Dec 29, 2007 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
In "my" two-man games, I pre-game that if both officials are in the same 1/2 court as the ball, the T has the last shot.

If the officials are in different 1/2 courts, then the official in the 1/2 court from which the ball was shot has the responsibility. This covers the quick turnover (as in the OP) and the long "hail mary" pass.

In any event, if there's any doubt, then make eye contact (or meet) before making a signal.

This is going to be part of my pre-game in the future.

Thanks to all for the responses


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