Tripping in Basketball

[lmeadski]

A1 has the ball and is dribbling up court. He dribbles past B2 who is jogging up the court and makes no real attempt at stopping A1. As A1 goes past B2 he dribbles into the direct line that B2 is jogging. As he cuts in, B2 and A1s feet obviously touch as A1 goes down to the floor like a sack of potatoes. Coach of A is crying murder! Says, "That's a call every time ref!" Foul on B2 for tripping? Or, no call as A1 was primarily responsible for the contact? We had this in a recent game and had no call. I was the trail and could not see the contact as I was screened by B2. At the next TO, we discussed and both the C and L said they didn't see the play, just heard the kid hit the court. Trip? Push? No call?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

A1 has the ball and is dribbling up court. He dribbles past B2 who is jogging up the court and makes no real attempt at stopping A1. As A1 goes past B2 he dribbles into the direct line that B2 is jogging. As he cuts in, B2 and A1s feet obviously touch as A1 goes down to the floor like a sack of potatoes. Coach of A is crying murder! Foul on B2 for tripping? Or, no call as A1 was primarily responsible for the contact? We had this in a recent game and had no call. I was the trail and could not see the contact as I was screened by B2. At the next TO, we discussed and both the C and L said they didn't see the play, just heard the kid hit the court. Trip? Push? No call?

I'm sure you realize this is one of those "you'd have to be there" decisions, but on the surface, this is what it sounds like to me:

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

A1 has the ball and is dribbling up court. He dribbles past B2 who is jogging up the court and makes no real attempt at stopping A1. As A1 goes past B2 he dribbles into the direct line that B2 is jogging. As he cuts in, B2 and A1s feet obviously touch as A1 goes down to the floor like a sack of potatoes.

No call ... but, what about a foul on A1? Maybe not with the way the contact was described, but what if he plows into the side of B2?

If he goes to the floor with ball in possesion - you could have a travel!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

A1 has the ball and is dribbling up court. He dribbles past B2 who is jogging up the court and makes no real attempt at stopping A1. As A1 goes past B2 he dribbles into the direct line that B2 is jogging. As he cuts in, B2 and A1s feet obviously touch as A1 goes down to the floor like a sack of potatoes. Coach of A is crying murder! Says, "That's a call every time ref!" Foul on B2 for tripping? Or, no call as A1 was primarily responsible for the contact? We had this in a recent game and had no call. I was the trail and could not see the contact as I was screened by B2. At the next TO, we discussed and both the C and L said they didn't see the play, just heard the kid hit the court. Trip? Push? No call?

This is an easy call. Under both NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules this is a blocking foul by A1 for not giving time and distance in setting a screen against a moving B2. The foul is a player control foul.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is an easy call. Under both NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules this is a blocking foul by A1 for not giving time and distance in setting a screen against a moving B2. The foul is a player control foul.

MTD, Sr.

Yep.

10.6.7 SITUATION: During congested play in the free-throw semicircle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them. RULING: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1. COMMENT: Screening principles apply to the dribbler who attempts to cut off an opponent who is approaching in a different path from the rear. In this case, the dribbler must allow such opponent a maximum of two steps or an opportunity to stop or avoid contact. When both the dribbler and the opponent are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible for contact which results if the player in front slows down or stops. (4-7-2)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep.

10.6.7 SITUATION: During congested play in the free-throw semicircle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them. RULING: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1. COMMENT: Screening principles apply to the dribbler who attempts to cut off an opponent who is approaching in a different path from the rear. In this case, the dribbler must allow such opponent a maximum of two steps or an opportunity to stop or avoid contact. When both the dribbler and the opponent are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible for contact which results if the player in front slows down or stops. (4-7-2)

It's amazing how many times they travel when trying to split two defenders.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep.

10.6.7 SITUATION: During congested play in the free-throw semicircle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them. RULING: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1. COMMENT: Screening principles apply to the dribbler who attempts to cut off an opponent who is approaching in a different path from the rear. In this case, the dribbler must allow such opponent a maximum of two steps or an opportunity to stop or avoid contact. When both the dribbler and the opponent are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible for contact which results if the player in front slows down or stops. (4-7-2)

Ok...here is what I am seeing....help me out here...

B1 is running directly down the center of the court toward the hoop chasing
A1 who is dirbbling (say 2 steps in front of and 2 steps to B1's right)...A1's move into B1's line that creates contact from behind by B1.

A) When allowing B1 two steps and then contact occurs, this is a block/push on B1

and

B) When allowing B1 only 1 step when the contact occurs...would be a player control foul on A1 (because of the screening elements for time and distance) MTD said a block, but since the A1 has the ball, it's PC.

[armymanjones]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Ok...here is what I am seeing....help me out here...

B1 is running directly down the center of the court toward the hoop chasing
A1 who is dirbbling (say 2 steps in front of and 2 steps to B1's right)...A1's move into B1's line that creates contact from behind by B1.

A) When allowing B1 two steps and then contact occurs, this is a block/push on B1

and

B) When allowing B1 only 1 step when the contact occurs...would be a player control foul on A1 (because of the screening elements for time and distance) MTD said a block, but since the A1 has the ball, it's PC.

correct

[Johnny Ringo]

Is there anywhere that says allowing one or two steps or is what is judged to be the appropriate amount for the play at hand.

[Coach Bill]

This is very interesting and something I did not know. We teach our kids when they beat a man off the dribble in the open court to move in front of the defender to cut off the angle and make them go through you. What I'm hearing is that if they successfully do that, and get ahead of the player, it's OK. But, if in the process, or before they get two steps in front, contact is made, then it's a foul on the dribbler. Correct?

By the way, I have never seen this called on the dribbler unless the cutover move included an extended arm or elbow. As such, I would be hesitant to teach my players to "trip" a dribbler that is trying to cut over on them.

[zakman2005000]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is an easy call. Under both NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules this is a blocking foul by A1 for not giving time and distance in setting a screen against a moving B2. The foul is a player control foul.

MTD, Sr.

Really? For getting their feet tangled?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by zakman2005000

Really? For getting their feet tangled?

It's not defensive pass interference if the defender looks back for the ball and the feet get tangled and both go down. Wrong sport.

If feet get tangled and one player is a dribbler, yup, it's a foul. How did the feet get tangled?

[zakman2005000]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not defensive pass interference if the defender looks back for the ball and the feet get tangled and both go down. Wrong sport.

If feet get tangled and one player is a dribbler, yup, it's a foul. How did the feet get tangled?

Maybe we are envisioning different scenarios, but if dribbler A1 cuts off a defender, the only contact between them is tangling of feet and A1 is the only player to hit the floor, I can't imagine calling a foul on A1. Now, if A1 isn't the player that is creating the contact, then I agree with you that it's a foul.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by zakman2005000

Maybe we are envisioning different scenarios, but if dribbler A1 cuts off a defender, the only contact between them is tangling of feet and A1 is the only player to hit the floor, I can't imagine calling a foul on A1. Now, if A1 isn't the player that is creating the contact, then I agree with you that it's a foul.

If A is the only player to hit the ground and the contact didn't cause B a disadvantage, then it's a perfect example of a no-call...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zakman2005000

Maybe we are envisioning different scenarios, but if dribbler A1 cuts off a defender, the only contact between them is tangling of feet and A1 is the only player to hit the floor, I can't imagine calling a foul on A1. Now, if A1 isn't the player that is creating the contact, then I agree with you that it's a foul.

Um, lemme see if I got this right. A1 created the contact by cutting off the defender and tangling feet. You can't imagine calling a foul on A1. But if B1 creates the contact, you say that it is a foul? My question is "A foul on who- A1 or the defender?"

Follow-up question--"If you say that the foul is on A1, what's your rationale for giving a foul to a player who did not initiate the contact?

Follow-up follow-up question--If you say that the foul is on B1, what is your rationale for calling a foul on B1 for initiating contact, but you wouldn't call a foul on A1 for initiating contact in the initial scenario?