Whao Has the Final Say?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kbilla

UGH this is why there should only be one official with the signal! Pre-game!! Granted you could still have a situation where the referee could overturn if he/she decided that the original call is clearly wrong, but if you have one official with responsibility for the last shot that is a heckuva lot less likely to happen..

It would be a cold day in hell where an R would overturn last second shot responsibilities without the use of a monitor or an impromptu discussion on the floor followed by the original official deciding whether to overturn his own call.. At least I hope so.

[inigo montoya]

What's the proper procedure in a 3-whistle game when a player in the Trail's primary takes a 3-point shot near the buzzer? The C has last-second responsibility, right? So couldn't you have a situation where the Trail is signalling that a 3-pointer was made (preliminary 3-point attempt signal, then signalling the ball went into the basket), but the C saying the shot was taken after the buzzer?

[bigdog5142]

I don't know if this is "by the book" or not, but practically, the official that is opposite the clock should probably have the responsibility in 3 man. It's always the trail in two man (unless the school only has one clock in one wall, then it could be the lead). If you're opposite, you have the widest angle to see the clock and the play.

I always pre-game with other officials to indicate what signal we'll use to communicate with each other who has the clock when it's under a minute. I use one finger straight up in the air to get my partner's attention. Then either pat my head if I have it or point to him if I am confirming that my partner has it. Not in the book, but it works.

[PIAA REF]

I am not saying that I would ask the clock operator but by NFHS rules you can. My biggest point if something like this happens and no one knows for sure if it was good or not we have to count the bucket. Another scenerio is what if we are in a loud gym and can't hear the horn. If no one knows if it should count or not the ruling is it counts.

[Mark Padgett]

I think in this situation, you should split the difference and give the team one point. If it was a three point attempt, give them one and a half. Who could argue with that?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I think in this situation, you should split the difference and give the team one point. If it was a three point attempt, give them one and a half. Who could argue with that?

The good thing about awarding 1½ points is that 99.9 (repeating 9)% chance you're not having overtime.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The good thing about awarding 1½ points is that 99.9 (repeating 9)% chance you're not having overtime.

It is for you other guys. For me, it doesn't matter since I don't allow overtimes no matter what.

[CLH]

I find that in these situations the best way to settle it is with a good 2 out of 3 rock, paper, scissors match.....

CLH

[tnsteele95]

Whoa, o.k. maybe I should've elaborated more. This was a middle school game with only two officials, I used the term referee too loosely I suppose. The official under the basket signaled the shot was good, the official in the back court signaled no good. The score keeper was a volunteer from the home school, so I wouldn't have suggested asking them. Hope this is a little more clear.

It was a very odd experience to see a team hit a buzzer beater and 300 people go silent waiting on the call. The officials met for a split second, the "under basket" official again gave the three point signal and disappeared in a hurry. lol

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by CLH

I find that in these situations the best way to settle it is with a good 2 out of 3 rock, paper, scissors match.....

CLH

Works for me, especially in the mud.

[Coltdoggs]

Was it the visiting team that hit the last shot or the home team and how far away are the locker rooms?

Ok Ok..I'm just playin'...As stated, Pregame for this...I could even make an argument that the official with primary coverage makes this call...Now the L on the long pass from endline is not really the primary on a shot at the 3 point line, but on this particular play he should be in the best/closest position to make this call...How would the T who is inbounding the ball be able to make this?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I am not saying that I would ask the clock operator but by NFHS rules you can.

See, I'm not sure this is the case, except where the floor officials didn't hear the horn.

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

My biggest point if something like this happens and no one knows for sure if it was good or not we have to count the bucket.

Right, and someone has to know FOR SURE, even the R. If the R wasn't looking, then the R still has to decide, and that decision is that it counts.

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

Another scenerio is what if we are in a loud gym and can't hear the horn. If no one knows if it should count or not the ruling is it counts.

If no one hears the horn, table gets first crack at it. If they're not sure, then it counts.

At least, that's how I'm reading 2-13 and the associated case plays.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I am not saying that I would ask the clock operator but by NFHS rules you can. My biggest point if something like this happens and no one knows for sure if it was good or not we have to count the bucket. Another scenerio is what if we are in a loud gym and can't hear the horn. If no one knows if it should count or not the ruling is it counts.

Personally, I do not rely solely on the horn. I have the clock in the corner of my eye and I know *about* when the horn should go. If the clock gets to zero and stops with no horn, I'd better be all over it.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I do not rely solely on the horn. I have the clock in the corner of my eye and I know *about* when the horn should go. If the clock gets to zero and stops with no horn, I'd better be all over it.

Rich - I know that you know this, but I want to point it out for the less experienced:

If the clock is STOPPED (i.e., you have a whistle right near the end of regulation) at :00.0 and there was no horn, the period is not over (NFHS goes by horn, not zeros on the clock).

What Rich said, however, is legitimate. If there has been no whistle, and the clock is at :00.0 for more than a beat, blow your whistle and end the period.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

I don't know if this is "by the book" or not, but practically, the official that is opposite the clock should probably have the responsibility in 3 man. It's always the trail in two man (unless the school only has one clock in one wall, then it could be the lead). If you're opposite, you have the widest angle to see the clock and the play.

Where the clock is located is irrelavant. We don't watch the clock, we listen for the horn. Your eyes can't, at the same time, focus on the clock at 70'-120' away and the play 10-20' away....such that you can see the shooter's hand/ball and also have a reasonable look at the defense. It takes a moment for your eyes to re-focus between objects at such differing distances. In most cases, the best angle to cover the play will not be the same angle need to also watch the clock. That's why we have a horn. Trust your ears and get in the right spot to cover the play.