6 men on the court
 

If a team has 6 men on the court and they score a basket, does the basket count? I don't have my rule book, but I think this a corrrectable error (incorrectly awarding points)?

The ball becomes dead when an official recognizes and penalizes the infraction. All points scored until then stand. This is not a correctable error.

It's not correctable. A live ball (which was not a throw-in) passed through the basket from above, therefore the points will stand.

You assess the technical foul and move on. (Expect a phone call from your assignor later. . .)

Agree, not correctable. T and put the ball back into play.

Making sure to count the players this time ;)

Team A is losing the game and wishes to employ the strategy of scoring quickly while causing the clock to stop when B has the ball.

Instead of yelling fire and "going for the ball", which always takes time off the clock, and often much more than A would like, they do this:

So... B has the ball in their FC and an extra A player sneaks on the court. Team A gets the defensive rebound and a quick outlet pass followed by a pass to the cherry picker 6th player for an easy two (perhaps 3). After the basket, the officials notice that A has 6 on the court. A T is issued. Now A is going to get the ball again no matter what, so a division-line throw-in for B is not a loss of possession to A. If B is really bad at free throws, then it may be worthwhile for A to "purposely" have 6 on the court as a trade for a guaranteed 2 points against the bet that A will miss their foul shots, with the benefit of the clock stopping quicker.

The only way it's guaranteed is if the officials fail to notice that the 6th player entered.

I'd also argue that in addition to a technical foul for 6 players on the court, if you know the coach emloyed this strategy intentionally, a direct flagrant technical foul on the coach may be in order.

It makes more sense this way. ;)

...and that sort of tactic is where a "travesty" ruling stats becoming a possibility.

During your pregame, you should practice counting more than 10 players on the court without having to take your shoes off. ;)

I can get to 11 without removing my shoes, but it creates a bit of a stir :cool:

Meeting Padgett on his own terms??:eek: get a chat room...

T is charged to whom? directly/indirectly to head coach or directly to the 6th player?

Yeah at a minimum it is buh-bye to the HC at this point b/c you aren't convincing me that it wasn't an intentional act based on JR's description...if that is worth the possibility of A making both FT's anyways and it being a wash then try it...it will only happen once, b/c the next time you are right we are in "travesty" territory....

Rule 10-1 Art 6

This may be a technical foul by rule, but it is OUR fault for starting the game with 6. We really shouldn't put the ball in play until there are 10 players on the court. I think this is part of our game management.

In the NCAA, the penalty is an indirect techncial foul charged to the player that offended (assuming we know who reported illegally or entered without reporting).

Fed
 

I disagree. It is ultimately the coach's fault for sending greater than 5 players onto the court. We can use preventative officiating, but it's not our fault if we do not prevent this situation.

Secondly, I would recommend that there are 5 players on each team on the court, and not 10 in total as you suggest. What if A somehow had 6 players and B had 4? If the official has a brain fart, and doesn't notice this oddity, he will conclude that we may proceed as there are 10 players on the court.

I disagree with your disagreement. First of all, the coach is never going to send six players onto the court. It'll be some player who didn't come off when he was supposed to, or some kid that went back on after a TO when he wasn't supposed to. So yeah, it's a team screw-up when it happens. But...

This is 100% preventable every time if we do our job properly. And I say that even after I let it happen once this year (for the first time in about 5 years). :(

As for there being 6 and 4...it ain't never gonna happen, and it ain't worth worrying about. Count to 10 by 2's and get on with it.

Curious, if you count 6 on a team before inbounding ball, do you tell the coach he has too many, or do you just blow the whistle as soon as the ball is inbounded? Isn't it the coach's responibility to know how many players he has on the floor?

Under NFHS rules this is a team technical foul. No individual is charged directly or indirectly with the foul. It does add to the team foul count.

I try to never say never and never say always. A distraction could cause a coach to forget his next line-up. We're all human and every one of us is capable of causing an error.

I'm used to football where I count 12 on each team, not 24 in total. I use to count 10, now I count 5+5. It takes no more time. To each their own.

That's got to be Canadian, right? ;)

I just say "somebody didn't leave...." and usually the other two guys I'm working with recognize it before I do.

If I'm the guy brining in the subs I tell my self "i got 2 on from white - and 2 on from blue"......"and theres my 2 off for white, ad 2 off for blue" then i drop my hand and let my co's know we're ready.

of course we pregrame the "ready" part. In my Wednesday game we agreed we wouldn't drop the hand until we were really ready

Pregame
 

Great advice !!

Are you reffing lobsters??

He's just trying to claw his way to the top.

You should be boiled for that one.

Old Bay Boil!! Yum!

No, it would be an old M&M boil.

So would you start the game after a timeout if black had 6 players on the floor? I would hope that common sense would prevail. Allowing 6 players on the court is a lack of concentration by the crew.... Something we don't have to deal with if we are doing our job.

That's a rather scalding comment.

Yeah well no need to get crabby about it, it's only a joke.

If I know that black has 6 players on the court, then no, I do not start the game. I either have my hand up in the air (non-administering official), or I don't give the ball to anyone. Either way, I am voicing to black's coach that he has too many players, six, on the court.

Say the official counts 5, allows the game to proceed and then during the play, he notices that there are in fact 6 players on the court. Would you call a T or not?

All right, I'll clam up.

For now.

(PS - Know any good music venues in JR's neighborhood?)

Melts in the pot, not in your hands?

Well, at that point you have no choice. I think we agree the key to avoiding this situation is for the crew to make sure the proper number of players are on the court before putting the ball in. I do believe that it is the primary duty of the CREW to ensure this mental lapse doesn't happen.

A similar situation is free-throw alignment. While we have violations we have to call if the players line up incorrectly, we really shouldn't be administering the shots until players are in the right spot.

My point is that we need to focus for the entire game and one little error like this can send a calm game sideways in a hurry.

Agree
 

I agree.

I agree points are counted and T assessed but I could not find in rule or case book. Help please!

Now someone is going to make a shrimp joke and Scrappy will get all crabby. (For those who don't know Scrapper, that's an in-tide joke).

I have an ocean to just close the thread now, but that would be shellfish of me. So, I'll leave it open, just for the halibut.

That about nets it out.