[QUOTE=JRutledge]This is why he needs to stick to quoting rules....
___________________________________ But Rut, give credit where it's due. The guy can seriously quote rules. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've only had a captain ask about a call once and that was when the ball got stuck onthe dribbler's hip and I had a travel. The one exception was an 8th garde Jr. High player with special education/developmental needs playing in a team with other players who did not. After he would foul he would ask me what he did wrong. I did answer him each time and was glad to do so! |
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I think evan Jurassic would approve of that one. Rolling their eyes are strictly reserved for interactions w/ mom and dad! I think evan Jurassic would approve of that one. I do encourage them to provide appropriate hints in the case of improper rules interps/enforcement. Here's an example... OOB play, Bonus in effect both ways. B2 is pushed by A3, whistle and foul called on A3. Official starts to administer throw-in for B. Time-out is granted and captain approaches U2 and remarks "No team control on throw-in, we should be shooting FT for bonus" U2 stays with the call but goes tp ask U1 who also upholds the throw-in decision. Finally R approaches and decides to award FT. Justice (and diplomacy) prevails. This invites another question for you good folks... Is this sitch correctable under 2-10 and what are the applicable timelines involved as to clock running or not? Thanks |
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2) "Rolling the eyes" isn't asking for an explanation. It's publicly passing judgment on a call, and also showing everybody that the official's judgment was wrong. 3) Yes, it's correctable under 2-10-1(a)-"failure to award a merited free throw." All correctable errors must be caught by the first dead ball after the clock has properly started. So, in this case, there's no problem correcting it because the clock never did start. Even if the throw-in had been administered and the clock had started, the call could still be corrected up to and during the next dead ball. |
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Surely it is such a rare occurrence that a HS player has even half a clue as to the proper application of the rules that most of us would be awestruck!! |
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I am in complete agreement that there is no justification to be second guessing judgement calls, and all such efforts are counter productive. On the other hand, if a blatantly erroneous rules application can be avoided, their instincts are to provide the officials the concise rules citation for the situation. I think most officials with an ounce of integrity would value the right info regardless of its source. |
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I concur that judgement calls are off limits but many times an explanation given in response to a respectful question may provide for a teaching opportunity. When my younger son was 10, he was called for a block. When he asked the ref what happened he was told he didn't give the dribbler a step and, even though he had good position that he was leaning backward and did not justify a charge. My son's response was short and sweet 4---23---3 This official has since progressed to earn his Varsity stripes and we rehash that incident every time we meet. He refers to my son as his personal rules guru. By the same token, my sons know the pat response to Quote:
It would seem these are more salient comments and may lead to a better called game. |
I have said this before ... your sons are stuck the refs and their rules knowledge for the entire game. The rules knowledge of the refs will not improve during the game and may not improve before the next game. Understanding that fact will help them cope with any misapplication of any rule. If there is blatant misapplication of a rule, some refs might listen to a respectful question, but most I know will not. Your sons are going to have to read the personality of the refs on the game to know if they can be approached or not with a question.
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I work nothing but varsity ball these days and, to be honest, I can't remember who the captains are 5 minutes after the meeting. It's why I circle the captains' numbers in the book, just in case I need them later. In 20+ years, I've never gone back and looked for those numbers, but I have them, if needed. I treat all players with the same respect they show me. They are welcome to talk to me anytime, but like I told the "captain" who wanted to whine about a block/charge and after I told him that we'll decide, not him, said, "but I'm a captain" -- being a captain doesn't give you a special right to whine and complain when you don't like a call. |
I officiate and still play in leagues. The only things I would ever bring to an officials attention are fixable things. For instance, we had an official blow his whistle on a loose ball (inadvertant), then tried to pretend it didn't happen, then tried to give it to the team that was closer to the ball.
Also, they might do other procedures incorrectly, and I will ask about those things--and don't feel bad for doing so. The handbook says that coaches, players, and officials should all know the rules. Nothing wrong with pointing out a specific rule. Now, I don't go overboard with it, and I certainly don't get into judgment calls. If he says it is off me and I didn't touch it--nothing I can do about it. (Although if he says it is off the other team and I touched it last, I can tell him that.) Anyhow, it is knowing what things they can bring up and what they can't. Most players don't know the rules, even the most basic things, so it would be a shock to an official that a player actually knows the rules. It is all in what is brought up and how. Leave emotions out if you disagree. |
I also still play in leagues as well. One big difference in the leagues I play in are that we don't have many "professional" referees. The leagues have players ref the games instead. It's not to save money, but really to have players learn how hard it is to ref so they will WHINE less. :)
Personally, I think it's funny that I'm considered the "professional" ref in the leagues I play in. I consider myself just your regular "average Joe" ref. However, I guess in sheer numbers of games worked, I am a professional ref. :D |
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