Scorebook/Scoreboard Error at End of Game
 

Maybe this will be interesting. I know the officials in my case handled this correctly, but it brought to my mind a related question.

I lost by 1 point last night, in my own gym (so I've no one to blame by my own group), with a decently experienced scorekeeper on my book. In a close 4th quarter, we were down a few and pressing, and my #11 scored, stole, and scored again within maybe 5 seconds. My scorekeeper scored the 4 pts correctly in the book - running score and player stats, but the scoreboard only posted the first basket.

AFTER time had expired and officials had "left the confines," she was talleying final scores and totals, and she discovered the error. (I know, I know, she SHOULD have been double and triple checking all along, but she didn't) The visitor's book agreed with hers. When the officials returned for the boys' game, she brought her error to their attention, and, of course, they stated there was nothing they could do by that time. (She had even asked that the game be "awarded" to us, after time had expired, based on the scorebook)

My Question: What if she had discovered the error, and the V book had agreed, AS SOON AS time expired (meaning we and the Visitors had played and coached and strategerized under the assumption of a certain score)? What about possibly other discovery times?

I know many here are very experienced and you would not have been even tempted to erroneously grant me the victory, or grant a do-over, but I posted this to show the newer officials just one more sitch they may encounter.

Hope this is interesting - I find these discussions very valuable in improving my coaching and my working relationships with officials.

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

2-2-4 ...the jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Yes, the score can be corrected up until we have walked out of the gym door. Scores can even be corrected in OT but the OT will played out since we started.

Well, the scorebook is the official record of the game. If the official scorebook has you as the winner, then you have won the game regardless of what was on the scoreboard.

At least, that's the way I understand the rule.

We discussed this a couple of months ago on this forum, but if I recall the situation was that the score of the running total in the official book, which is the official score not what's on the board, was tied.

The problem here is what was the final score that the referee approved when the officials left the visual confines of the gym? Is it what is recorded in the book, which they can't see or is it what they can see on the board and what everyone in the gym thinks is the score?
In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board. Perhaps the NFHS will give us an official ruling someday.
BTW I have a strong suspicion that your scorer could learn something from this too. I have to believe that he/she was not keeping the running total across the top of the book, but only marking down the points under each player and then totalling them up at the end of each quarter. Had a running score been kept this mistake would have been noticed at some point. Also a good reminder that the RUNNING SCORE is the official score!

This is a very good example of why many top officials find a moment in the final few seconds/minutes of the 4th quarter to have a quick word with the scorer and confirm that the score in the book matches what is on the board.
Then only a thumbs up at the final horn or a look and a nod is all that is needed to the scorer before leaving the floor.

Obviously had this been brought to the attention of the referee prior to all of the officials leaving, then it could have been corrected and you would have won the game.

I read the OP as the scoreboard was incorrect, and the official book was correct...

That's not the one in the case book. That's from last year's interps on the website.

Nevada asks the pertinent question. My understanding from the rule is that the book is what gets approved. You might want to get clarification from your state, coach.

It also depends which part of the scorebook was correct and where the points were recorded. See my above post about the running score versus the individual player talleys.

I'm sure that you know that.

Yeah, great point, and also a great point in your post about "what is the official actually approving?" It would be great to get a clarification or case play added regarding this type of situation.

We had a scoring error in our game last night that wasn't caught in time. My partner called a PC foul on a layup in the third quarter, and apparently the scorers counted the basket. The other team ended up losing by 1. After the game (and after we'd left the confines and returned) the coach asked us about it. He knew the mistake had been made, said he tried to make the point with the scorer, but never asked one of us about it. Strange situation, and I was left wondering if I should have been aware enough at the time to catch it. It was also the one call all night I was frustrated with my partner on because for the second night in a row my partner came to get a call in my area - and IMO was wrong again. :D

That's an excellent learning example. I track the score and the team fouls the entire game. After every basket goes in I find a time in the next couple of seconds to check that the points went up on the board properly. If we get to the next dead ball and they haven't I stop the game and get it fixed.

In your case there was a foul, the game was now stopped, and you have time to check the board, you should be glancing at it for the clock info anyway at every whistle. This really is something that I would expect a varsity official to catch, but as you said, you may have been distracted due to your partner calling out of his area. That is something that I'm sure all of us can take a lesson from and strive to improve upon. How does it affect us when our partner does such and such on the floor. The best officials will keep a poker face and continue to do their duties. It just takes extra mental focus. Thanks for sharing that situation. I'm going to think about it when I work again this weekend.

Absolutely - one thing I know is that in striving to do the best I can and "prove" myself as an official new to this area, I'm allowing some distractions I shouldn't.

Game awareness, as I said, is an area I'm working hard on this year and it failed me there. Unfortunately, both of us have 5 or more years under our belts, have called quite a bit of varsity, and neither of us caught this one. Quite frustrating, but as you said a great learning opportunity and something I'll be working on next time out (tomorrow and Friday).

I just surmised that and made a comment about it in the other thread that you started this morning. Go check it out.

We should probably bounce this discussion back over to that thread instead of continuing to highjack this one. I feel that we are getting away from the OP's point.

Clarifying: Scorebook's running score and player stats were correct, reflecting the scoring of 4 pts instead of 2.

. . . and yeah, scorekeeper SWEARS (or affirms) never to make this mistake again. Incidentally, your advice to absolutely get the running score correct before marking the player stats is exactly what the officials last night advised her.

So how does she go the whole 4th quarter or however long it was marking up two more points on the line than are shown up on the board and never have it click with her when she looks up? Did she never look at the scoreboard or did she not read the number that she was putting the mark through in the book?

I'm just baffled here that it would go undetected for so long?

PS Where are your fans? You know the "helpful" ones who always scream "The scores wrong! We didn't get our points." They needed to make some noise for you. :)

To me, the bigger question is, "in a one-point game, how is it that no official went to the table in the final 2 minutes to ask if the book matched the scoreboard?".

Inexcusable.

Where are my fans?

yeah - my question, too. I know they usually SCREAM at the officials when it takes longer than a nano-second to get the points up on the board.

Believe me, I have wondered exactly what you ask - but there is just no answer. Anyone "can't imagine" how it happened (she is quite experienced and reliable), but it did. Yeah. . . . I'm pretty sure she'll be all over it for the rest of the year.

See post #5. :)

I'm curious why you would consider what's on the board final and not the running total in the official book.

If one asked the referee in the lockerroom what the final score was and which team won the game, what answer would you get? :eek:

At some level that matters!

Of course, there is a case book play about the ref not knowing that the U counted a goal at the horn.

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.


I'd submit that the difference is that in this case ONE of the officials believed that the score was proper.

I'm not trying to start a fight on this, but I have to say I'm surprised at your thoughts here. I would think that the rules regarding the running total of the official being final in matters of disagreement would be overwhelmingly compelling in this case. Even if the perception of the participants had to be corrected at a later time or date. Otherwise, why keep an official book?

But I certainly would not want to be the person who had to make the phone calls to straighten out the mess; nor would I want to be the referee who got a call from that person! ;)

But in this case the book properly reflected the final score, based on the umpire counting the basket. So the result recorded in the book stands since the window of opportunity for correcting this error (this is a correctable error, is it not?) has closed with the officials leaving the floor.

The subject of the case really is that this error cannot be corrected once the officials have left the visual confines. It actually confirms that the final score, as recorded in the official scorebook, stands.

My response was not intended to carry one shred of animosity.

If it came across that way, I apologize. It was meant to signify the shock that the referee would express in learning that the opposing team was victorious. It would certainly make a mockery of the final bit of game action.

I truly don't know the official ruling on this, so there is no way that I could even get into a "fight" about this issue and certainly not with you. You've always been cool. I just would take all measures possible to never serve as the test case which sets the precedent! ;)

It may be semantics, but I think that it actually confirms that the umpires call and erroneous counting of the goal must stand. This is a bit different than something that was unbeknownst to everyone involved.

It did not. I just didn't want to seem like I was starting one. Especially since I agree with your basic sentiment as regards the shock of everybody involved.

Amen! In fact, I'm going to be adding your advice about checking with the book near the end of the game to my game starting today. That kind of notoriety I don't need!

The NFHS issued an official ruling before you were born, and that official ruling has never changed. The official ruling (amazingly enough) is in the official rules.

Rule 2-11-4...<i>"The scorer shall record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and keep a running summary of the points scored."</i>

Rule 2-11-11....<i>"If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the <b>OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK</b>, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the <b>OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK</b>."</i>

<font size = +5><b>OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK!!!</b></font>

If the scoreboard and the scorebook don't match at <b>any</b> time during the game, are you really advocating that we should accept the scoreboard?

Rule 5-3...<i>"The winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of points when the game ends as in 2-2-4."</i>

Do you deliberately bring up nonsense like this to confuse newer officials?

So what I think you're saying is in this case we go by what is in the official scorebook ...

Thank you.

I'm not sure but I think there might be something in the rules about an "Official Scorebook". ;)

Is the scoreboard even referenced in the rule book?

ha ha! it's amazing what one can come up with when one applies the basics, well done! so just from a procedural point of view, how would this be fixed, and what would be the statute of limitations on something like this? what if the next day the home coach looked at the book and realized that it was wrong and confirmed with the visiting team, etc.....i guess it would have to be handled by the state association....hard to believe this could actually happen, but i suppose it could...

Take it up with the state, you're right.
Once I leave the court, the book is approved. The state will need to determine the reality of the final score, or if the book has it tied, the state will determine whether OT is played.

regardless, it's a good reminder to pay attention to the table towards the end of a close game.

here's another one, what if they looked at the book an hour, day, whatever, later and realized that the game was actually tied?

As someone pointed out waaaaay back, the rules cover that too. NFHS rule 2-2-4 says that the final score is <b>approved</b> when all officials have left the visual confines of the playing area. From our(the official's) standpoint, anything that happens after that is irrelevant as far as we're concerned. We can't do the scorer's job as well as ours. We just have to trust that they have done their job properly. If it comes out after the fact that the scorer screwed up, it's now up to the state/league to decide if they want to do anything further.

The official stance of the NFHS is not to accept any protests. That has never stopped individual states/leagues from doing so however.

I am still trying to figure out why anyone cares what the scoreboard says. In the OP the book was correct. The scoreboard is there for the fans and nothing else in my mind (well... maybe the clock).

And the coaches to determine how they will manage the game...you can't just discount out of hand that the scoreboard is important...NOT as the official keeper of the game result, I agree the book is final here, but the fact that they are different IS a serious problem and DOES potentially impact the outcome of the game...

Right, understood, all I am saying is if it was determined after the fact that the other team actually won by a point, the association could always award the win to the other team after the fact...but if they are tied what do you do have them go back and play OT? Agreed, this is not the officials concern, but it would be interesting...

So, picture this. Scoreboard says team A leads by 1 in the last minute. During a time out, the referee checks to be sure that the book and the scoreboard agree and is assured that they do. A runs outs the clock and begins to celebrate. The officials leave the court. Scorer looks down, "Oh, silly me! I looked at the board wrong. B is actually up by one. I guess they win."

Is there a specific documented procedure for this situation?

Yes.

They lose.

Who loses?

I was wondering when anyone ever looks at the book, if there's no reason. I mean, seriously what if the wrong score shows up in the paper? That's still not official, I know, but does anyone really actually look at the book? Routinely?

When I ask my scorer during a timeout "is the official scorebook correct", and that person says yes, then I'm fine and we go with the book. The visiting team has a scorer as well, and by rule, the official scorer MUST compare with the visiting scorer after each goal, foul timouts and at the end of each quarter and extra period and to notify the referee immediately if any discrepancy. So if the board is incorrect and the book is correct, and I ask the table loud enough so both the visitor and official scorer hears me, is the book ok and I get a thumbs up or a nod of approval from the official scorer, I'm gone. So in your scenario, Team A loses.

Not sure if anyone ever does go back and look in the book, but I always mark the final score in ink just in case. I also constantly check the scores in the last few minutes of any game and will signal the R with a "thumbs up" after the horn if everything matches.

Hopefully the scorer learned from this. I've (thankfully) always been lucky enough to only have my errors occur with plenty of time left on the clock.

That's what I always thought, but with all this reference to accepting the score from the official book when there is a discrepancy set me to wondering. I see that 2-11-11 refers to resolving a difference between books, and has nothing to do with the scoreboard. As Snaqwells asked, is the scoreboard even mentioned in the books? Referee's duties include approving the final score. What exactly does approval consist of? Officials who are satisfied that everything is ok routinely run off the floor immediately when the final buzzer sounds, do they not? This way we can avoid technical fouls for profanity and jersey removal and that sort of thing.:) So, for that matter, what if the scorer finds the mistake before the officials leave? The team which has successfully stalled out the final minute is then told, "Oops, scoring error. Y'all are behind by one instead of up by one. Sorry, you lose."
Would this not be the ultimate rip-off?

There's nothing anyone can do. If the losing team thinks it was done intentionally, then I suppose they could file a complaint. Otherwise, I think it's just too bad. But having a visiting book plus the home book and having them checking constantly with each other, and extrapolating that to include the scoreboard should prevent this sort of scenario.

B

As someone who has been a scorer since my grade school days, I'm amazed that the either or both scorers didn't check the scoreboard to make sure it was correct. If my running score doesn't agree with what's on the board, I'll check with the other scorer to see what he or she has as their score, and then proceed from there.

For me, this is especially true at MS or lower games where the home scorer may either be a kid or inexperienced parent. Then, I follow the rule on scorers more to a tee and ask questions such as "how many fouls on #14?" or "how many times out left does [team so and so] have now?"

If I'm the home scorer at these games, I make sure to verbalize the player scoring/fouling, who called what kind of time out, and end of quarter score and fouls. If halftime is long enough, I'll even review individual fouls. Sometimes, it doesn't stop discrepancies, but I'd rather try to be proactive than have someone wait until the last part of a game to claim some sort of book error that could have been taken care of with preventive scorekeeping. :D