I was quitely telling a coach tonite about his star player and his mouth. I was saying this to the head coach and one of his silly assistant's had the nerve to say to me, "you show him respect too."

When did kids deserve respect? When did a 16 year old deserve respect from an adult more than 10 years (and many that are here more than 10 years by far :)) deserve respect. Especially if he is like most, that do not pay rent, do not own a car and definetly in most cases commit certain crimes will have it stricken from their record after they get 18. Did someone not send me a memo? When did kids over 10 years my junior, become so important that adults feel that basically children under the law can talk to me as an adult, let alone an official any kind of way?

When I was a kid, my mother would have dragged my behind off the court herself if I even looked at an adult with the wrong intent. Now these kids think they are in the pros and that because they are the star (who cares if your name is in the paper) and you think someone owes you something.

We have gone waaaayyy to far with this. I am not any of the player's peer last time I checked. I cannot even relate to many younger people that are in their early 20s and I am not 30 yet. And I am going to have to listen to some snot nosed kid and show him some respect because all he has done in life is play the same sport I did over 10 years ago (better than me I might add, but I was not 6'2 either) and has yet to go to college. And considering all the so-called great players that go to college and never finish, I am not personally impressed. But then again, I do not get impressed by athletic endeavors either.

But maybe it is just me.

Peace

A few weeks back (JV game) I called a "T" for profanity. When I went to report it I also told the coach what I had. He wanted to know what his player said and I told the coach that I would not repeat what the player said because I wouldn't be any better than the player who said it. The coach then told me that the only reason he used profanity is because I didn't call a foul on the other team when this player was shooting. I told the coach that's what's wrong with the game and life today because everyone has an excuss and also that he wasn't setting a good example with his team.

In order to get respect you have to show respect and I don't think our generation of youger players have been taught to respect officials. They witness how coaches and fans yell and use profanity at officials through out the game and think that's the norm.

One of them thar youngin's
 

I think everyone is entitled to a certain amount of respect just for being human and being who they are.

That said, I don't know what the assistant coach was talking about, but it doesn't fit with my definition of respect. The asst. is probably referring more to the fact that this was a "star" player and everyone should kiss the ground on which the kid walks.

BTW, did you T up the assistant?

Sometimes the best way to get something is to give something. Why not just take the high road and make others travel along the same path?

sounds to me like someone needs to get out of the game.-- Lumping all the players as one is extremely poor. I am sure not all the players you are officiating are criminals, i am sure most are very good kids. It aint a wonder officials get a bad name with attitude like this from officials. No you dont need to bow to them but at least treat them fairly -- dont think they have robbed you .

one word works here----RELAX

I really don't have a problem with repeating to the coach what a player said by using such euphamisms as "the S word", or "the F word". They usually get it.

Here's an old Davism off the shelf:

Dave Ts a kid for profanity.
Howler Monkey: What did he say?
Dave: Coach, he said that word that starts with "F" and ends in "U-C-K" and it's not "FIRETRUCK".

Everyone deserves respect, regardless of age. If a player gets out of line, it should be dealt with and move on. No grudges.... Refs can't have chips on their shoulders and we're supposed to be out there to serve the kids. I respect any kid who has the guts to put in the time and effort in activities, whether they be athletic, academic or social. Those are generally the good kids. :)

Z

What on earth does age have to do with respect?

If I am a 30 year old player, and the referee is only 20 should I grant them the same ammount of respect as the other official, who is 45? Damn right!

The only two things that have any relationship to the ammount of respect a person deserves is their position, and their behaviour.

An official demands a certain level of respect, regardless of their age.

A coach deserves a certain ammount of respect, regardless of age. BUT - if that coach's behaviour is out of line, then the ammount of respect they deserve falls.

As a referee that started at a young age (11) and is still reasonably young for the level of games that I do, I hate people that judge me on my age, rather than my ability.

I agree, the assitant was out of line, but Rut, so are you. Choose not to respect the player becuase of their attitude - never their age!

With an attitude like yours, and that 2x4 chip on your shoulder, you have no business officiating youth sports.

Bob

Sorry I do not agree. Age has everything to do with it. I am 29, I do not treat people that are 50 the same as I would someone that is 25. I was raised the you treat people that are older than you, especially people that were adults when I was a child. Maybe you were allowed to call the adults in your life by their first name, I was not. And with me being 29, I still refer to many of my friends parents as Mr or Mrs. I do not call my girlfriend's mother by her first name or any other women that I dated, and I will never call someone that is in a their senior (eg. aunt, uncle) and age matters then.

And when I was a kid, it was not even approved to call adults by their first name. And it definitely was not approved by my parents to say and do anything in front of adults. That is why this society is falling apart, the adults try to treat these children as adults. They are not. And I am not going to change that value. And if any kid wants to run his mouth, I will handle it or let the coach do so. I am not treating a teenager the same as someone that has lived much, much longer. That is not in my value system.

And that is why I never introduce myself as Jeff to any captain, I am Mr. Rutledge to them, because I will still show that respect to those adults and say the same to them and I am almost 30.

Coaches by the way are different. And coaches by position should be shown some respect, much more than assistant coaches. And coaches are adults, they do not have children coaching other children in HS. Players at the HS level, are not my peer in life or by position. And if this is suppose to be the extention of the classroom, I am not going to have any kid talk to me any kind of way. If they are not old enough to get a HS license in my state, they do not deserve more respect because they are a player.


Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Feb 4th, 2002 at 12:37 AM]

Well, so you let a player talk to you any kind of way? Are you not in authority?

And if all that is the case, do you talk to your boss or the people that you work for the same as the people you work with. Please tell me you do so I can laugh. Because the guy or gal in charge is always treated with a certain level of respect, or you do not work there.

You are right, I am going to have a 15 year old say anything to me regardless of what the rules state. That is why we have kids killing parants, you guys want to be friends instead of parants. No wonder this world is F**Ked up.

Peace

I like your parents!
 

<b>And when I was a kid, it was not even approved to call adults by their first name. And it definitely was not approved by my parents to say and do anything in front of adults.</b>

Amen! All too often, respect is lacking. And I have considerable respect for a coach that makes respectable behavior a priority for his players. A local coach here has the #1 Class A team in the state, but his top player is a hot head.

Two weekends ago, the hot head pulled back-to-back T's for losing his temper and arguing with the official. He then proceeded to give the bench a swift kick. This past Friday, the player served a one-game suspension for his behavior against the #6 team in class 3A. Despite jumping out to a 22-4 lead, they finally lost in a nail-biter. Hot head never got in the game. The coach was willing to sacrifice the #1 ranking to teach this kid a lesson. I hope it took.

Hey Rut, you have 33% of the posts in this thread and 66% ding you on your attitude. You were talking about a pregame comment from a non-counter. Maybe the assistant did look up to the kid. Let comments like that flow off your back like water off a duck. The alternative is that you get pissed off and it affects the way you call the game. The level of respect you hold for individuals on the court really should have no bearing on the game you call.

As for the pregame, maybe a more appropriate comment would have included the language used by all players. Why single out the habitual offender. Let the whistle do the talking. You think the coaches don't hear what's said on the court? Toss the little reprobate on the second fuc&.

<I>Well, so you let a player talk to you any kind of way?</I>

If you read my original post, you'll say that I say to <b> deal with it </b> and move on. If I have to give a kid a T, I do so and then we get on with the game. I will continue to treat the kid with respect once it's dealt with.

<i> Are you not in authority? </i>

Yes, and people in authority are generally looked to with more respect than those who think they are better than others.

<i>And if all that is the case, do you talk to your boss or the people that you work for the same as the people you work
with. Please tell me you do so I can laugh. Because the guy or gal in charge is always treated with a certain level of
respect, or you do not work there.</i>

Laugh all you want, but the answer is yes. I treat my co-workers with the same respect that I do my boss. Brown-nosing not needed when you respect everyone.

What century do you live in where the amount of respect you give people depends upon their age and you're too good to do girls basketball? You give referees (and adults and men) a bad name. Amazing.

Z

Sad, sad day.
 

I did not give a T, I did not have to. And the problem was solved. If I was picking on the kid, I think he would have not been in the game. I tried to use the moment to teach the kid something without resorting to drastic measures. I told the coach and he handled it.

I am making a larger statement or asking a larger question. I obviously handled the situation, because there was no further incident. I was not asking for help, I just wanted to know if the kids in this country have lost their mind and are the adults letting them do it? I grew up in an era where you did not even think of saying the wrong thing to adults or you would have to feel the wrath of your parents or the coach. As a matter of fact, I was pulled out of games and so were my teammates if we even tried to question an official in any way. There was no adults to back my behavior up, along with my peers.

Obviously I am not talking about a situation I cannot move on from, I was trying to get an intelligent debate or discussion about the state of young people as it relates to the way they deal with adults. Referee Magazine did have a article recently about the lack of sportsmanship of players and coaches. And sense this is suppose to be the extention of the classroom, I wonder how many teachers or principals allow their kids to talk to me Mr. Official they way the would talk to them and not be in detention or be suspended? And since we are authority figures I thought that other intelligent people here would see the point. I guess I was wrong again.

Peace

Really?
 

Well that is why we have kids, these priviledged *** kids shooting up schools, killing parents and the killing teachers because we have been giving respect to all ages. I guess we are not suppose to repremand children, especially with the fact that parents and teachers are held legally responsible for the actions of minors. They are called minors for a reason ya know.

And for your boss. I guarantee you are not cursing them out about decisions that they make. If you are what century do you live in? There is always someone that judgement need to be questioned. Especially if you want to play a game, or have a job.

I think you give the human race a bad name for even saying that stupid comment.

Peace

Re: Sad, sad day.
 

[/QUOTE]


I did not give a T, I did not have to. And the problem was solved. If I was picking on the kid, I think he would have not been in the game. I tried to use the moment to teach the kid something without resorting to drastic measures. I told the coach and he handled it.

I am making a larger statement or asking a larger question. I obviously handled the situation, because there was no further incident. I was not asking for help, I just wanted to know if the kids in this country have lost their mind and are the adults letting them do it? I grew up in an era where you did not even think of saying the wrong thing to adults or you would have to feel the wrath of your parents or the coach. As a matter of fact, I was pulled out of games and so were my teammates if we even tried to question an official in any way. There was no adults to back my behavior up, along with my peers.

Obviously I am not talking about a situation I cannot move on from, I was trying to get an intelligent debate or discussion about the state of young people as it relates to the way they deal with adults. Referee Magazine did have a article recently about the lack of sportsmanship of players and coaches. And sense this is suppose to be the extention of the classroom, I wonder how many teachers or principals allow their kids to talk to me Mr. Official they way the would talk to them and not be in detention or be suspended? And since we are authority figures I thought that other intelligent people here would see the point. I guess I was wrong again.

Peace [/B][/QUOTE]Rut,I think you explained exactly where you're coming from a heckuva lot better in the above,than in your original post.You're certainly not the only one with these concerns.To be honest,I really don't know what the answer is,though.Most of the kids we deal with are great kids,but if their parents,coaches,school administrators,etc. don't or won't deal with their behavior,it makes our job that much harder to do.We have to keep trying,though.The bottom line is that we have to hope that these kids will change,and maybe we can be a small part of that change.Keep on truckin'!

It also true that those who do have poor behavior make most of the noise and therefore attract most of the attention. Easily 95% of the players I've seen this year have displayed good sportsmanship. Of course, they are not the one's drawing the attention of the fans and the officials.

I probably had as many middle school kids say, "Thanks, sir" at the end of a game as I had kids who complained. That's a combination of age and having worked some Christian school games, but there's a lot of good eggs out there, too!

You're not alone on thinking the respect needs to be improved, Rut.

Re: Sad, sad day.
 

Yes.

Quote:

I grew up in an era where you did not even think of saying the wrong thing to adults or you would have to feel the wrath of your parents or the coach. As a matter of fact, I was pulled out of games and so were my teammates if we even tried to question an official in any way. There was no adults to back my behavior up, along with my peers.

I wish it were like this. Unfortunately, you're right - the parents are often the ones driving this whole thing along.

<i>Well that is why we have kids, these priviledged *** kids shooting up schools, killing parents and the killing teachers because we have been giving respect to all ages.</I>

Funny, I have never heard a police officer, a counselor, a psychologist, a sociologist, or even a teacher say that all our child problems are because we give the kid <b> too much </b> respect. I've heard that it's because the kids weren't given enough attention, but even that seems a bit simplistic.

<i>And for your boss. I guarantee you are not cursing them out about decisions that they make. If you are what century
do you live in? There is always someone that judgement need to be questioned. Especially if you want to play a game, or have a job.</i>

Now you're starting to ramble. You asked if I treated my boss the same as the people I work with. The honest answer was yes. Not sure what "cursing them out about their decisions" has to do with anything. As I said before, I treat everyone with respect so I wouldn't ever curse anyone out. Not even you.

Z

Jeff

At 43, it's Mr. Coach, sir, to you.

Rtu -- I have to say that I am in 100% agreement with you.

Sportsmanship at all levels is a travesty. You are right on target about (some) high school athletes that are simply punks -- no two ways about it.

As I'm sure you and others do, I show respect to players when they show respect to me. If they respectfully ask a question, they get a respectful response. If they act like an idiot, they receive the appropriate penalty.

Ever get pulled over for a traffic violation? It's a helluva lot easier to get out of the ticket by showing a little respect versus having a chip on your shoulder.

You might be surprised how often a "Yes sir", "No sir", and "You are correct sir" can get you out of a ticket.

It also works elsewhere.

I think Rut is correct in his assertation that the level of sportsmanship has decreased in the world, BUT I also think that officials walking around, acting like the world OWES them respect just because they have the whistle is a HUGE part of the problem.

Do bad cops deserve to be respected? What about business leaders who shread documents and lie to shareholders? What about coaches who "look the other way" when one of their players has been arrested for drunk driving? What about the parent who lets his/her kid walk all over them? Are we to respect all those people just because they are Older, Successful, and in positions of authority? Heck no.

I can't remember who, but someone in an earlier post to this thread hit the nail right on the head.

You have to GIVE respect in order to get respect. If the players sense that you are arrogant and not friendly and not approachable in your pregame, how in the world can you expect them to RESPECT you. There's a lot to be said for showing respect to everyone in the world. Whether they call you Mr. Rutledge or Mr. Ref or Sir or if they can sense you're approachable and feel like they can ask you a question, but they come up to you and say "Hey ref i have a question for you", it doesn't matter because THEY ARE SHOWING YOU RESPECT by approaching you because they know you'll be responsive.

If on the other hand, they sense you're stand-offish, then how do you think they're going to act towards you?

JRut - i usually agree with your officiating philosophies and your rule interpretations, but by you acting like players owe you respect just b/c you're the boss man you are making it harder for everyone else who tries to utilize the "good eggs" to help keep the "bad apples" from ruining the entire game.

Off my soap box,
Jake

<B>You have to GIVE respect in order to get respect.</B>

That's exactly right and exactly what I said.

However, don't turn it around and say that if we expect respect from players we have to show it to them first — that's not how it works.

Respect is <B>earned</B> -- if a player hasn't done anything to earn my respect, then he doesn't have it. That is the point.

<I>If the players sense that you are arrogant and not friendly and not approachable in your pregame, how in the world can you expect them to RESPECT you.</I>

This is besides the point. When we are dealing with high school (and lower level) students, why in the world should we consider their perspective? (That is, what they "sense") Teenagers do well enough to sense what is going on with themselves than to have an opinion on me.

Besides that, if they do sense that I am being arrogant, etc., does that give them the right to be disrespectful? No. THEY need to continue to show respect regardless of whether or not they like our calls or anything else going on in the game.

<I>JRut - i usually agree with your officiating philosophies and your rule interpretations, but by you acting like players owe you respect just b/c you're the boss man you are making it harder for everyone else who tries to utilize the "good eggs" to help keep the "bad apples" from ruining the entire game.</I>

I'm going to come to Rut's defense here because I think that (what you just wrote) is plain wrong.

How can people read into Rut's original posting that he is trying to be arrogant and disrespectful and acting like a big shot?!? He was trying to take care of a problem player without issuing a technical foul and was met with the response (from an assistant coach, no less) that he should show the player respect, too.

What a bunch of crap.

The coach needs to handle HIS player and not worry about what Rut is doing (if I had my guess, nothing other than officiating the game).

If Rut was trying to act like a big shot he would have just tossed the kid or at least given him a technical.

Are officials supposed to be gutless and pansies?!? I don't think so...

There are authority figures in life -- cops, your boss, your parents, etc. Officials also fall into those categories. You should give those people respect whether you think that they deserve it or not -- or you will have to deal with the consequences. (Imagine not showing respect to your boss and the impact that would have on your job, for example)

We can't improve sportsmanship if we think that an adult official needs to show respect to a 16 year old player before that player should act correctly.

Now Brad, I hate to have to report you to the moderator! :D

Actually, I'm glad to see such a spirited reply from you! ;)

Brad,

I basically agree with what you have said - that you have to give respect to receive it.

But I feel that everybody starts off with the smae ammount of respect from me. I respect anyone I meet until they do something to change my opinion (either positively or negatively).

The concept that you start off not respecting anyone, until they do something to earn your respect is flawed. This (to me) is the same as the idea that you have to have experience to get a job - if every employer felt that way, then no-one would have jobs.
If you refuse to respect someone until they do something to earn their respect, and the other person feels the same way, then no-one will respect anyone.

As people in positions of authority, I feel it is up to us to set the example. I will deal with everyone I meet respectfully and in the same maner regardless of age/race/gender/social status or job, until they do something to change my opinion of the level of respect they deserve.

But hey, that's just MHO.

I don't disagree with anything that you've said except that I don't think that a player's respect for us as officials should be dependent on their perception of us (they think that we're standoffish, etc.) -- their coaches should teach them to respect officials. But many don't, which is a huge source of our problems.

And BktBallRef, if I get out of line, just let me know :)

The whole story.
 

Showing disrespect to a person that I do not know to me would be calling someone out of their name, sterotyping them without knowing anything about them. This was not the case.

For those that think I have a chip on my shoulder about this. This is why it came to this conversation.

I called a lane violation on this kid in the first quarter. It was so obvious, he was the only person in the lane and no one else moved until the ball hit the rim. Then after two of my partners called a "carry" on him, well I called one on him last. He did a jump hesitation move that the NF shows is illegal on their rules tape. He did the same thing and complained immediately about the call.

I will make it clear that I am an African-American official and this kid was African-American or Black depending on your political correctness. What I have found when I officiate Black kids or have Black coaches (and this coach was not Black BTW) tend to see so many white officials or do not see many Black officials, that they assume that for some reason they can approach me or say what they want. It usually means that the "Black" teams treat me much worse than the all white teams ever have. I guess they think that the white officials are usually screwing them and when they see me it will be different. But I do not care about any of that during the game and call what I see and what happens. For some reason kids of other backgrounds do not even try to approach me in that fashion. I really do not know why, it just seems that way. And I was the youngest official on the court too, and I probably look much more like their peer than anyone else on the court, this kid made several comments to me. He did not do this to the other officials (that I could see), but happen to do it with me. I have no explaination for this other than what I said.

Well, I had an out of bounds after he again said something about a call I made. If I remember it correctly, he wanted me to call a foul on a shot that basically he took in a crowd. Well what usually happens and the ball got knocked out of his hands but he got the ball back. He was the player that was taking the ball out so I decided to talk to him quietly and not make a scene or show this player up. This kid is a very good athlete and has many college offers on the table. But this kid is so good that he wants to play baseball wherever he goes to college. And I know this so I want to give him the opportunity to change his behavior without me just blowing my whistle. Well I failed miserably and he did not take what I said to him very well. And all that I told him that I have told other players that are getting out of hand, that he needs to stop complaining about every single call. That is going to cause him more problems if his behavior continues and that he needs to show more "respect." Well he claimed that I was not showing him any respect even though I did not raise my voice and not a sole could hear a word I said but him because he was a little taller than me and I was basically right by his ear.

Well, after that did not work I addressed the issue with the coach. We did not have another problem the rest of the game after my comments to the coach. But I will also say that I feel that the kids tried to mirror the attitude of their coach. The coach complained about every single call, to the point that one of my partners had to basically tell him, "enough is enough" in an unrelated conversation with the coach. I do not know if my conversation or my partner's conversation did the trick, but either way it worked and the kids and the coach shut up.

I definitely did not read the situation the way I should have. And that I probably should have just addressed the coach in this situation. But I do not see what a "chip" had to do with this. But then again, some here are truly twisted in their thinking about everything I say. But to each his own.

Peace

<I><B>I feel that the kids tried to mirror the attitude of their coach</B></I>

I think that I will paraphrase this (if you don't mind)

<BIG><B>Players mirror the attitude of their coach</B></BIG>

and put it on a plaque and sell it!!!

This is an undeniable truth about sports. The worse the coach is, the worse the players and fans will be. Period.

I'll give you some leeway. I know you do the same for me! :)

The simple answer to your original question is WHEN WE LET IT HAPPEN! After reading replies to posts about unsportsman like conduct do you really have to ask this question? Too many of us let these things slide hoping not to rock the boat or punish the kids but all we do in the long run is erode our own authority and respect. I don't seek personal respect from players or coaches but I will treat each with the respect and dignity given to all human beings, but I demand respect for what I represent when I am on the court, a keeper of the game of basketball.

"Lil Bobby got a gun now, age fifteen
Destined to spend his life inside a cage it seems
Rage inside, pride, been denied respect
He can't take it though he gotta earn it
But he ain't learned that yet."
-Afro Angel- by Will Smith from the Willenium album

I agree with Rut.
I have had 13, 14 , 15 year old kids tell me I have to repect them in a game, and I just laugh.
Earn my respect, I'll give it to you. No problem.
But what have you done in your 13 year old life to earn my respect? Do you have children, a job, struggle to put food on the table for those kids. And you want respect, just because you can shoot a basketball? Puhlease!!!!
Let me see how you react when a tough call goes against you. Let me see how you act when your coach takes you out of the game even thought you think you should still be in!
When I see you can handle those situations with maturity,(which by the way, many adults fail that test,)
I will gladly give you respect!
I know of an eighth grader who got mad at an official
who called a foul against him and proceeded to tell him
"I'm the best player out here!" Niiiiccce.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to me!:cool:;)

I agree entirely with that comment Brad. But, I will also say that I have had some experience where using the captain, we have been able to calm the coach down. That's why I made my original point about Giving Respect to Get Respect (you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that point).

If the players see that you a)smile at the captains meeting, b)say a friendly word to 2 or 3 of them during pregame warm-ups, then c)you are more likely to garner their respect, which leads to d)being able to really rely on your captains (even if it's not the student-athlete that appears at the circle) to help calm players and coaches down.

That was really the intent of my original post - but in hearing JRut's full explanation of the game situation I felt like he tried to handle things in much the same way I would have and sometimes the tricks just don't work. Some kids are just A-holes plain and simple.

Jake

Captain.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 112448

Quote:

I agree entirely with that comment Brad. But, I will also say that I have had some experience where using the captain, we have been able to calm the coach down. That's why I made my original point about Giving Respect to Get Respect (you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that point). If the players see that you a)smile at the captains meeting, b)say a friendly word to 2 or 3 of them during pregame warm-ups, then c)you are more likely to garner their respect, which leads to d)being able to really rely on your captains (even if it's not the student-athlete that appears at the circle) to help calm players and coaches down. That was really the intent of my original post - but in hearing JRut's full explanation of the game situation I felt like he tried to handle things in much the same way I would have and sometimes the tricks just don't work. Some kids are just A-holes plain and simple. Jake

If it adds anything, this kid was a captain. So I was trying to reason with him to allow him to be a leader. But that failed so I went to the next best thing and went to the coach. Not that him being a captain means much, but at least the coach has given him some authority or his teammates have given him some authority to act like a leader. And when the leaders act up, the followers follow.

But it never seems to amaze me how the coach that complains the most about what we do, loses most of the time. At least at the HS and below levels, coaching is sooo much more important at those levels than higher up. Not to say that coaches that lose composer at College and Pros do not need to still coach, but HS students are not mature enough to handle adversity the same way a college kid might. And even the college kid the more he plays (or she) they might find themselves handling adversity better. Hell they have seen a lot by the time they are in college usually.

Just like the official that has been done the same road several times, players that have been done the road several times just do not panic quite the same as someone that is going down that road for the first time.

And Brad is right. And that is what happen that night. But by the time he stopped complaining about everything (the coach I am talking about) it was too late. They were playing a very good TEAM and there is very little room for error in those situations. And the other coach basically keep his mouth shut and just coached. And you could tell that by him doing that, his kids just played. It was not like his kids did not get upset about certain calls by looking at their face, but they always had leaders that made them focus on their opponent and not us. And you could tell by the way they played. But that is why they are one of the best teams in the state at their level.

Peace

<B>[Message Deleted]</B>

Peter,

We do not allow personal attacks on this forum.

If you have something positive to contribute to the forum, by all means, please do so...

Our goal is to <I>help</I> each other get better. We can disagree, but we need to conduct ourselves in a positive manner.

Thanks,
Brad

Sorry Brad,
But I honestly don't believe we can help.

I think if people would start looking at each post honestly and openly rather than being biased based on who posted it, that would <I>help</I>.

Just my $0.02

It would not have mattered who made this post. My comments would have still applied. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. So much for comments.
Pistol

Fair enough.

We simply want to avoid ad hominem attacks on each other.

We're all officials and we know the difference between "That's horrible" and "You're horrible", don't we? :)

Sayonara

I've pretty much stayed out of this but I think this may reflect what others have said about players mirroring the example set by their coach.

As I've stated probably too many times before, I serve on the board of our local rec league. Last night, I got a call from the board president asking me to facilitate at a hearing later this week involving one of our rec league coaches. It seems she was removed from her coaching position by the board (I was at that meeting) based on a request from the school district, who, while not specifically asking for her removal (they really have no authority to do that, since we are independent), but said that if she was allowed to continue to practice and play in a certain gym, the district would no longer lease that gym to us. There was no problem with her team, only with her. We were told by the school district that on more than one occasion, she got into verbal shouting matches with the custodian at that school when he tried to reinforce school district rules regarding floor time, no food or drink in th gym policy, etc. All of this happened in front of her team (5th grade boys). We tried to switch her practices to another school, but were unsuccessful in finding anyone who would switch with her.

Gee - I'm really looking forward to this, especially after reading the scathing correspondence she has sent to us.

Our main point is that this happened in front of the kids.

Those damn Canadians.
 

He is from Canada, give him a break. :)

Don't worry Rut I won't be commenting on yor posts again. I will simply read them and let the others do my talking from here on in.
Pistol

Are you ever going to act like an adult?
 

Believe me, I would not lose sleep and will not lose sleep either way.

I have much better things to worry about then what you or others think about a stupid post. Heeelloooooooo, THIS IS A D.I.S.C.U.S.S.I.O.N. B.O.A.R.D., MAAANNNNN!!!!!

Cannot say I will do the same in return thought. If you say something that I feel I need to comment on, I will.

For those of us that live in America, we understand that disagreement is going to happen and you happen to disagree with me on this and many issues. But most agreed, and a few disagreed with this particular post. The whole point is to voice those issues and move on. And for someone that took anything I said personal, or tried to read into it because of what you THINK you know of me, than that just shows how petty you are. My partner's did not have a problem with anything I did, and WE did DISCUSS it afterwards. And both of them had children (I do not) and agreed with me that teenagers need to know their place.

If age did not matter, they would allow teenagers younger than 18 years old officiate HS games in my state. I guess that means 17 year olds get no respect. But I guess the State of Illinois and many other States do not respect legal minors? But in America we do have rules. Sorry they do not fit your IDEALS.


You have a great childhood. ;)

Peace



[Edited by JRutledge on Feb 6th, 2002 at 02:22 PM]