Two Fouls?

[inkwiziter]

O.K. Smart People,

I think this is a twist on a recent thread (which I can't find).

A1 has beaten B1 by going around B2, and is free for an airborne lay-up. B1 very forcefully pushes B2 into shooter A1. The push from behind on airborne A1 dumps A1 to the floor, also causing the lay-up to be missed.

How many fouls do you have, and what are they?

Who gets the foul(s)?

Thanks!

[Edited by inkwiziter on Feb 2nd, 2002 at 05:42 PM]

[co2ice]

Foul on B2, A1 shoots 2! Then B2 pounds the snot out of B1.

[inkwiziter]

Originally posted by co2ice
Foul on B2, A1 shoots 2! Then B2 pounds the snot out of B1.

Intentional personal foul?

[BktBallRef]

How can you have an intentional foul on B2? B1 pushed him.

[oppool]

I maybe off base on this but since I am assuming you cant call a foul on B1 for fouling his own teammate could you not give him a T for unsportmanlike conduct since these actions could of cause harm to B2 and A1 besides the reg foul on B2


Don

[BktBallRef]

I don't think you want to do that. Call the foul on B2 and be done with it.

***Typo corrected. The foul is on B2. B1 doesn't make contact with an opponent. You have no choice except to call the foul on B2.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Feb 3rd, 2002 at 01:48 PM]

[inkwiziter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I don't think you want to do that. Call the foul on B1 and be done with it.

Intentional personal on B1?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by inkwiziter

Intentional personal on B1?

Nope - any sort of personal foul involves live-ball contact, or contact on/by the airborne shooter while the ball is dead.

[kevin]

I agree with BktBallRef. B1 caused the foul to happen. Give the foul to B1, A1 shoots two free throws, if he is able, and go on.

[Slider]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Nope - any sort of personal foul involves live-ball contact, or contact on/by the airborne shooter while the ball is dead.

I too would call a personal on B1.

Mark, I agree that there must be contact to have a personal, but check out this scenario:

A1 has back to basket, spins around with ball in hands and hits legal defender B1 with ball while maintaining the ball in his grasp. The inadvertant ball hit momentarily clears enough room for A1 to get off a shot that scores. Do you call a player control (personal) foul?

[Edited by Slider on Feb 3rd, 2002 at 09:42 AM]

[crew]

i would call the foul on b2 even though b1 pushed b2 into a1. let the team deal with it after that.

[Just Curious]

B2 made the contact... B2 gets the foul.....

[Slider]

Originally posted by Just Curious
B2 made the contact... B2 gets the foul.....

Just, I don't think that is correct. See my question for Mark above. The personal foul definitions say that contact must occur, but I don't believe they exclude contact via an intermediary entity.

[Edited by Slider on Feb 3rd, 2002 at 09:34 AM]

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Slider

Just, I don't think that is correct. See my question for Mark above. The personal foul definitions say that contact must occur, but I don't believe they exclude contact via an intermediary entity.

[Edited by Slider on Feb 3rd, 2002 at 09:34 AM]

Slider, I can see where you are going with this and you could make a case for calling an intentional or flagrant foul on B1. But, in reality, are you going to do this? I am not, foul on B2, on with the game.

[Slider]

Originally posted by devdog69
Slider, I can see where you are going with this and you could make a case for calling an intentional or flagrant foul on B1. But, in reality, are you going to do this? I am not, foul on B2, on with the game.

Absolutely, I would call it on B1, he used B2 as a weapon, just as a player might use the ball as a weapon.

If the play were more uncertain (rebounding action under the boards) then I would call it on B2.

[Edited by Slider on Feb 3rd, 2002 at 10:22 AM]