Most difficult level to call (?)

[Paul LeBoutillier]

I was just kinda curious what you guys consider to be the most difficult level of play to call.

For me it would have to be Jr. High. The ability often isn't there and so we try to call the game at their level of talent. (Obviously if we called Jr. High ball at a JV level we would be there ALL NIGHT for all the traveling and everything else.) I guess I find this level difficult for that very reason. Sometimes it's tough to know what to call and when.

[JRutledge]

I do not care what level, night in, night out it has to be girls basketball. It does not matter if it is varsity all the way down to the 5th and 6th graders. Many of the teams has only one player that even knows how to handle the ball, and if that one player does not have the ball, LOOK OUT!! You are going to have problems no matter what you call.

I did a girls game tonite and it was probably the worst I have ever had at the varsity level. I was walking faster than the girls were dribbling. I had to catch myself and slow down because I was getting ahead of the dribbler and beating them to the backcourt and this was with pressure on the ball. It was awful. And will someone please teach these girls to box out for a change. Why are girls just coming under the basket like a magnet to metal and all of them just slapping at the ball instead of grabbing the damn ball. What are these coaches teaching these players?

And no, I am not saying it is difficult to call girls just because they are girls, I wish they had coaches that told them how to play, and stop treating them like little dolls that are going to break if you allow them to have contact.

I could do a JH boys game, and nine times out of ten, they have at least some players that understand what the hell is going on. Too many coaches are too busy trying to run the damn triangle instead of just teaching basic fundamentals on how to dribble and defend.

I have to say it is girls. They are not very well coached, they get other officials that cannot officiate. And when you go out there and hustle, call what you are suppose to call by the rules and have good mechanics, you get ripped apart because you are the only person that calls a actual travel or does not call a player out of control when they are trying to split two defenders just standing there. At least when you do a boys game, they have had some good officials consistently. You do a girls game and you give a damn, you are the best thing since the wheel, or the worst official they have ever seen.

Just an opinion, you asked.

Peace

[Peter Devana]

The highest and lowest levels are tthe hardest to call.
In both cases great judgement is required. I can evaluate a person at a Jr. girls game and get a good evaluation of an official, because how they perform there is how they will perform at the highest level .
Most everything between those levels can be handled adequately by the majority of officials. The people who excel at the lowest and highest are the true "Great Officials"
IMHO
Pistol

[daves]

Middle school girls, without a doubt. In years past we had a school where we did 2 games side by side at the same time. We would have a 7th grade and an 8th grade B game. Then we would come back and have the 7th and 8th grade A games. All the scores and timers were early teen kids. The coaches were parents were volunteers who really didn't know the game very well. The players were not very skilled.
They would frequently hear a whistle from the court next door and stop playing. Often times a ball from the other court would come into your court and you would have to stop play for the players safety. The pay was low and confusion was the order of the day.

[Doug]

girls middle school games because they usually tend to be sloppy, and like dave said, the coaches are usually volunteers.

[Hollywood]

3rd and 4th grade:

Boys or girls it doesn't really matter. It's the first level where they keep score in our league. Below that at the Pee-Wee level or 1st/2nd graders, it's just a game and the kids are having fun and all the parents are laughing and having a good time. It's the kind of stuff you see on the TV bloopers. There are no real calls to make. You never call traveling unless the kid picks up the ball and runs with it halfway down the court. You only call OOB and even then, only if the ball hits the wall or something like that.

But once they start keeping score, alot of the fun goes out of the game. Then, the parents get serious. The kids are still out to have fun for the most part but the parents want to WIN! Most of the coaches have no real knowledge of the game. Some are still out to have fun but others are thinking its the NBA and want calls on everything. Parents start pushing their kids and screaming at the officials. It gets really crazy sometimes and we're talking 8-10 yr olds. I really wish they would take the scoring out of the
game until the kids get a bit older so everyone can have fun again.

[Mark Padgett]

I think this is one of those times a broad generalization has some merit. To my way of thinking, the lower the level, the more difficult. Here's why.

As we gain experience, we have a tendency to understand the flow of the game and anticipate events. I don't mean necessarily we anticipate calls, but probabilities. For instance, at a varsity level, during the early or middle part of a game, if a kid is on a breakaway, you anticipate either that the defender is going to catch up from behind and try to reach around and probably hit the arm, or that he won't get there and the ball handler will make an easy layup. So, you concentrate on the distance spread of the two players as they come down court and you watch the arms of the defender. However, at a lower level, it's just as likely that the ball handler will dribble the ball off his knee OOB, or miss an open layup, or that the defender will trip over the heel of the ball handler, etc.

My point is that you have to watch for a lot more at lower levels because the things you could otherwise narrow your concentration on are not necessarily the things that will happen in a given situation.

The more you have to watch and be prepared to call, the more difficult it is to be consistent and to concentrate on contact.

Give me varsity level anytime, although the kids definitely are funnier when they are younger.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Give me varsity level anytime, although the kids definitely are funnier when they are younger.

The Howler Monkeys are funny on any level.

[BigJoe]

Mr. Rutledge hit the nail right on the head! Girls of any level are the hardest to officiate. College girls aren't too bad and the lower levels aren't bad either because there isn't as much competitive expectations as the upper levels of girls basketball. We did a Varsity girls-boys double header last night as the schools are quite a ways apart. The boys played first and we had a game go right down to the wire. My partner and I both felt great about the game. The coaches and players all came up to us and thanked us for a great game. Between games several fans commented on what a good job we did as well.

THEN THE GIRLS TOOK THE FLOOR!

After that game it felt as if I had never officiated a game before. I guess I am too hard on myself, but someday either I will refuse to do girls games or learn that it is impossible to feel as if you called a near perfect girls game.

[williebfree]

It is a good thing that they have the boys play the early game of the double-header .... I prefer that arrangement over the reverse (girls then boys)... slow, disjoint game followed by a fast, cohesive game.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by williebfree
It is a good thing that they have the boys play the early game of the double-header .... I prefer that arrangement over the reverse (girls then boys)... slow, disjoint game followed by a fast, cohesive game.

If I had a choice, I would always rather have the boys game first. The girls game is usually much slower, it is not played as well, and they want you to call everything.

Then you do the boys game, the tempo steps up several notches, the players can all dribble, and if they cannot the coach is not yelling at you to bail him out. And it takes quarter and a half to get the feel of the game, because you had such a different pace the game before.

I would rather do a JV game, then a Varsity boys game to follow. At least there is a similar tempo at play.

But to each his own.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

First off, JR if you dislike girls' basketball so much do take the damn (please excuse my French) games.

[SNIP -- Please be nice Mark. Thanks - Brad]

Second, while jr. H.S. games (boys or girls) can be difficult, I really think the the most difficult are men's college jr. varsity. The colleges that have these teams are either NCAA Div. III or NAIA. Many times, the team consists of freshmen and sophomores who will eventually move up the the varsity so the school fields a team so that these players will get playing time, but to fill out the roster, there are football players on the team who played H.S. ball, but really are college caliber basketball players. To make things more difficult the officiating crews are usually two-man crews, which means you are really hustling up and down the court. Do not get me wrong, these games are some of the most fun games to officiate but the football players on the court sometimes forget that this is basketball not football. They do not play dirty, but they are little out of their element.

[Edited by Brad on Feb 6th, 2002 at 02:25 PM]

[zebraman]

Rut,

[SNIP]

You are right..the boys game is different from the girls game in style and tempo. Some refs are able to adjust to do both and others are more comfortable doing one or the other. To each their own. Take a deep breath..it'll be all right.

Z

[Edited by Brad on Feb 6th, 2002 at 02:26 PM]

[RX Ref]

Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier
I was just kinda curious what you guys consider to be the most difficult level of play to call.

For me it would have to be Jr. High. The ability often isn't there and so we try to call the game at their level of talent. (Obviously if we called Jr. High ball at a JV level we would be there ALL NIGHT for all the traveling and everything else.) I guess I find this level difficult for that very reason. Sometimes it's tough to know what to call and when.

[RX Ref]

I do seem to get more people yelling from the crowd at girls games than boys. It's funny though, I had 2 girls freshman games this week that were better than the girls varsity game I had.....

Originally posted by JRutledge
I do not care what level, night in, night out it has to be girls basketball. It does not matter if it is varsity all the way down to the 5th and 6th graders. Many of the teams has only one player that even knows how to handle the ball, and if that one player does not have the ball, LOOK OUT!! You are going to have problems no matter what you call.

I did a girls game tonite and it was probably the worst I have ever had at the varsity level. I was walking faster than the girls were dribbling. I had to catch myself and slow down because I was getting ahead of the dribbler and beating them to the backcourt and this was with pressure on the ball. It was awful. And will someone please teach these girls to box out for a change. Why are girls just coming under the basket like a magnet to metal and all of them just slapping at the ball instead of grabbing the damn ball. What are these coaches teaching these players?

And no, I am not saying it is difficult to call girls just because they are girls, I wish they had coaches that told them how to play, and stop treating them like little dolls that are going to break if you allow them to have contact.

I could do a JH boys game, and nine times out of ten, they have at least some players that understand what the hell is going on. Too many coaches are too busy trying to run the damn triangle instead of just teaching basic fundamentals on how to dribble and defend.

I have to say it is girls. They are not very well coached, they get other officials that cannot officiate. And when you go out there and hustle, call what you are suppose to call by the rules and have good mechanics, you get ripped apart because you are the only person that calls a actual travel or does not call a player out of control when they are trying to split two defenders just standing there. At least when you do a boys game, they have had some good officials consistently. You do a girls game and you give a damn, you are the best thing since the wheel, or the worst official they have ever seen.

Just an opinion, you asked.

Peace